Our Cocker is 18mths, is becoming more aggressive and has bitten...!! HELP...

[Stars1193]

Our loving Cocker - around 18 months of age, is loving most of the time, we have three children and do make serious efforts to keep their play and him separate and have done since early days due to puppy stage liking to run off with socks, balls etc.  However, this last 5 months he has started to become aggressive to the extent I cannot go within 8ft of him eating without him turning on me.  He seems to skip the whole growl, show teeth to actually mouthing and nipping.  He has bitten myself a good few times now, and other members of my family.
We seem to know the situations he will turn and bite, these are feeding; if he has managed to grab a sock - he does not give it back without trying to nip; and occasionally turning upon being stroked.   

We think he is trying to ascertain his status within the 'pack' between us and our children.  We love him dearly but we've reached a point we do not trust his reactions.  He has bitten, not just us adults, mainly myself and my father, but two of our children, marking and just breaking the skin.  We have seen a behaviourist and recommended more intense obedience training.  We did complete puppy and next stage training, and I wonder if not playing give and take; removing objects from him in certain ways has caused him to become the way he has.  This is the first time we've had a cocker from a pup.

My/our worst fear is we are fast approaching the stage we may have to rehouse to someone whom can train to his needs, our children come first from safety point of view.

Is this level of behaviour extreme, does he have a streak of rage?, can anyone help suggest methods/training or should we rehouse - if we can due to his current biting scenarios...

[Karma]

Firstly, as you can identify triggers for this behaviour, this is highly unlikely to be rage (which is incredibly rare anyway).
Did the behaviourist not give you any strategies for managing the behaviour?? Were they registered with APDT??  If not, I would get another behaviourist to come and watch what is happening.

Personally I am not a big believer in the "Pack status" issue - but a dog does need consistent boundaries, and without these they can become confused and potentially aggressive.  If taking something away from your dog is a trigger, I would certainly do swaps - even now we give Honey a treat if she gives us something she or we feel is precious (though having done this from a pup, we don't need to have a treat to hand now). 
Again, if feeding is an issue, you can try throwing yummy treats near him while he is eating and gradually build up so you can add these to his bowl.

It is very difficult to advise on actual aggression via a forum, and I am suprised the behaviourist hasn't given you more advice - obedience classes will help to build up a bond of respect and trust, but you also need to be able to manage the current situation while things improve.

Has he been checked by the vet for anything physical?? An undiagnosed health problem can sometimes lead to aggressive behaviour...

[Beth]

It sounds to me like guarding behaviour. If you do a search on the forum for resource guarding you may find some helpful threads.

My boy was prone to guarding, and still is given half a chance, the key for me is being able to figure out what he is guarding, sometimes it can be something as simple as a piece of paper within his reach, or a bit of food which has been knocked under the sofas.

Agree with Karma regarding pack theories.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it.

[cazza]

Hi sorry you are having these problems

You haven't stated what part of the UK you are in

I would like to recommend you look for an APBC registered behaviourist in your area (or as close as possible) Have a look at this link for one in your area   http://www.apbc.org.uk/regions.php


edited to add - you need a behaviourist to see you and your family in your home and discuss at length.
I agree that it is more than likely a  guarding issue (although i would get him checked by a vet too) and that you may have inadvertently esculated with the way you have dealt previously with taking things off the dog. (sorry I'm not placing any blame on you or anyone)
A behaviourist will ask you all these things and will acess how strong a guarder he is and will help you make an informed decision which will be best for you and your family

[Stars1193]

Thanks for your replies, well we have not yet started he obedience class - he contracted Kennel cough the weekend we were due to start after the behaviourists initial visit.  What is APDT?

He did suggest on-lead training in the house and the use of his toys, with treats, though I have not been regular at doing this say, daily etc...which is probably what's needed....

We have not checked with the vet re any health issues though this had crossed our minds.

re message from cazza - We live in the East Midlands.

[cazza]

APDT - association Pet dog Trainers 

or see the link I have put on too - association Pet behaviourist councillors

[HeatherandBenjy]

Hi there, I'm sorry you're having difficulties with your cocker... 

I agree with the others though, that as you can identify the triggers, it is very unlikely to be rage (which as the other say is very rare).

Please get your dog checked out by a vet. We currently have Archie, a foster dog with us who was handed in for guarding and biting. Turns out he has severe hip displaysia and has been in pain since the day he was born. 

I'm no expert, but the only time our other cocker has been 'stroppy' with us has been when I've tried to take a 'high value' item from him. To this day I exchange a treat for the item. He has come to accept this. 

I also firmly believe in dogs being given their own space when they have their food. I don't know whether your cocker won't tolerate you being in the same room when he is eating or whether you're trying to get too close. In my book once the dogs have got their food they are left to eat in peace.

Like I say, I'm no expert, I'm only putting down my experiences. I really hope that this is something that you as a family are able to find a way to work through as its clear that you care very much for your dog. 

Good luck, please let us know how you get on. 

Heather
x

[bibathediva]

Agree with what everyone else has said...does sound like guarding issues but would get a vet check first which is what you would need to do before seeing a  behaviourist as you need a referral letter to say there are no health issues causing the problem 
But as others have said in the mean time if he isn't happy with you in the room when eating then leave him to eat alone...stops the potential confrontation or if he is fairly happy with you being in the room you can start throwing goodies near his bowl (high value..like pieces of chicken,cheese) while he eats just to get him use to the idea you are not a threat to his food.
we always swap an item if we need to take something off the dogs although like karma we can now just say leave and reward them afterwards...but to begin with you need to swap with a higher value item than the one he has got.
Lola did start to have some guarding issues with us..balls..socks...chews but we have always used the swap method right from her being a pup and she is now happy to leave stuff when asked as we either return it to her..if she is allowed it or give her something in return.
But the first port of call would be the vets and then get a qualified behaviourist in to assess the dog and the family 
good luck

[PennyB]

But the first port of call would be the vets and then get a qualified behaviourist in to assess the dog and the family 
good luck

But make sure both are cocker savvy as far too many are quick to say 'rage' when its more than likely not (still a behaviour problem though) but they don't leave you with many choices.

[Stars1193]

Further update from use after seeing the VET...

Our dog Barney has just been diagnosed with Rage Syndrome. He is a beautiful golden cocker spaniel, and much loved, but is unpredictably agressive and has bitten us, some surface skin wounds, some a bit deeper. We have been advised by the vet who diagnosed Rage to put him down, which we see as a last resort, once all other options have been investigated. There is no way however, that we can keep him, as we have three children, two of whom he has bitten, and we don't trust him, and are scared of him.
 
Is there anyway that you can help us, or know somebody else who could do so?

[Beth]

I really don't think it sounds like rage i am by no means an expert, but rage is supposed to be completely out of the blue attacks, and these don't sound completely out of the blue. And vets are not qualified to diagnose behaviour issues.

I wonder if any cocker savy rescues would take him in and assess him more fully?

[sabrino]

I agree ith Beth. I would have him assessed further.

[laurenollie]

Me too - you need to see a behavourist, i have seen other posts on here with people reporting similar things and they have resolved them with help!!

Please contact a behaviourist before considering having him PTS

L&O x

[Karma]

Agree with Beth - a Vet is not the right person to diagnose Rage.
All to often vets see a Cocker Spaniel (especially a Solid Golden) with behaviour problems and they "diagnose" Rage, despite having no real knowledge of the condition.  If a vet cannot find a medical cause for a behaviour, they should refer to a suitably qualified and experienced behaviourist.

Dogs affected by Rage attack without triggers or warning - you stated you could identify the triggers for his behaviour.  
Take a look at this site - http://members.lycos.co.uk/ragesyndromeinfo/whatisrage.htm

I completely understand you feeling Barney needs to be rehomed, as you do need to consider the safety of your children, but a "diagnosis" of Rage will make things more difficult for him - unless, as Beth says, a Cocker savy rescue is willing to get him properly assessed...  

[bibathediva]

  ..did you vet diagnose him  and how did he come to that conclusion  ...i would seriously get another opinion by someone who is qualified in behavioural issues.....agree with karma that some vets see a golden/red cocker and come to the conclusion that it is rage 
There is a member on here*jools* who's dog did sadly suffer from rage...I'm sure she wouldn't mind you pm-ing her as she obviously has experience of dealing with rage and could perhaps guide you in the right direction for getting a proper diagnoses(hope you don't mind me saying this Jools)
do let us know how you get on