An aggressive cocker, a young daughter and serious concerns....

[JB]

Thank you for all of your comments. It is nice to know (although not nice for us that are getting bitten) that others are going or have been through similar experiences and we are not alone.

I had a blue roan cocker when I was a child for 10 years and although he growled if we perhaps we went near him while he was chewing a bone, he never showed a temper and/or bit any of us. Is it a problem solely with solids ? Is Louie like this because of the way we have brought him up ?

In answer to your various questions:

1) He has a bed in the kitchen where he sleeps at night and he took over a leather bean bag that I bought myself a couple of years ago and lays on that when we are watching tv in the evening.
2) He is walked daily and off the lead as much as possible.
3) I only started taking his food away from him on the advice of the lady at the vets who we saw for help. This has meant that instead of growling at snapping at me if I ask him to leave his food, he will happily sit down and let me take it. I take this as a positive. I must stress that I have not done this for many months
but he will look at me as if to ask permissiom before starting to eat every night which again, shows he has respect for me in some situations.

When it is raining/wet outside I leave a towel by the door to dry his paws and barring a few unhappy grumbles he will happily lift his paw when he comes in so that I can dry them. Why is it he can do this but has an issue if I want to examine him like a vet would ?

When we took him to puppy classes, he would be great at fetch/retrieve, wait and ok at walking to heel on a lead and weaving in out of skittles but I did wonder how much benefit it was doing him with regard to the aggression. Naturally, I would be prepared to start taking him again but the type of things he was asked for do they seemed completely separate to his temper outbursts.

I have thread my policy docs for the pet insurance and it says that behaviour therapists are not covered so that does not look an option.

What sort of prices have people paid for behaviour specialists and how many sessions did you go for before seeing improvement ?

[Top Barks]

I'm afraid to say that a dog obedience class is not the answer to an agression problem.
Aggression is often context specific.
For a  2hr behaviour consultation, full written report and an hours follow up I charge around £120.00 but that is without travelling time and mileage.
That is cheap compared to some.

[bibathediva]

I had a behaviourist out to see my 2 ....although not the same sort of problems as you are having...and it cost £120...she came to my house and was here for a good 3 hours ..she asked about the dogs...diet...exercise...training etc...she watched the dogs and me...took notes ...asked questions and gave me some immediate pointers and advise and then she sent me an action plan to follow through with back up anytime by phone or email  ..you and the rest of the family really do have to follow the plan though and it can be time consuming and long term...there is no quick fix  but do make sure that they are a member of APBC or APDT 
I don't personally think it is just a solid cocker issue as i have a solid and a roan and the solid is much much more gentle...very much a people pleaser and the last thing she would think of doing is biting(thats not to say she wouldn't if pushed) where as my roan is pushy...stroppy...would rule the house if there wasnt ground rules for her and i think would be quicker to bite than my solid 

I do think that how you are with you dog as a pup which will have a bearing as to how they turn out as an adult  but we have all made mistakes with our pups/dogs and you just have to move on from that and try to sort the issue in hand 

Really hope you find a solution 

[JennyBee]

It’s hard to say why Louie is like he is… but like bibathediva says, it is unlikely to be because of his colour.  I believed this before I found COL (Barney was black) but from the many posts I have read I believe that any type or colour of dog can develop these kinds of problems.  I continually ask myself what made Barney such a difficult dog when the dog I have now, brought up in similar conditions, is the loveliest, most gentle dog I have ever known.  I think breeding is one factor - Baz came from rather dubious circumstances whilst Brodie came from a good breeder who only bred from dogs with good temperaments.
I really hope you find answers to Louie’s problems  

[JaspersMum]

Depending on your financial situation, does anyone know whether any of the charities like Dogs Trust will help in these scenarios if it stops a dog going into rescue  Is it worth a call to Dogs Trust or Blue cross to see if their behaviourists can help for a small donation 

May be a long shot but if you don't ask you don't know

[PennyB]

Depending on your financial situation, does anyone know whether any of the charities like Dogs Trust will help in these scenarios if it stops a dog going into rescue  Is it worth a call to Dogs Trust or Blue cross to see if their behaviourists can help for a small donation 

May be a long shot but if you don't ask you don't know

Trouble is they're full up with dogs that have come into rescue for similar reasons

[JaspersMum]

Depending on your financial situation, does anyone know whether any of the charities like Dogs Trust will help in these scenarios if it stops a dog going into rescue  Is it worth a call to Dogs Trust or Blue cross to see if their behaviourists can help for a small donation 

May be a long shot but if you don't ask you don't know

Trouble is they're full up with dogs that have come into rescue for similar reasons

That's why I wondered if any can offer preventative measures 

[Top Barks]

Depending on your financial situation, does anyone know whether any of the charities like Dogs Trust will help in these scenarios if it stops a dog going into rescue  Is it worth a call to Dogs Trust or Blue cross to see if their behaviourists can help for a small donation 

May be a long shot but if you don't ask you don't know

Trouble is they're full up with dogs that have come into rescue for similar reasons

That's why I wondered if any can offer preventative measures 

It is inappropriate to refer to a specific case without seeing the dog or taking a full history but as a generalisation one could do the following.
As much as possible don't give the dog opportunity to guard, and if the dog is guarding something do not use confrontation with the dog. (I Cannot stress this enough!) Teach a leave it cue and a drop it cue. Also work on retrieve.
Closely supervise all time spent between any children and dogs.
Hand feed the dog if possible, brush up on canine body language to recognise when your dog is not happy.
start to swap low value items with the dog for tasty treats, have brief handling sessions which are paired with the dog getting something nice and very importantly get the dog medically checked to ensure their is no underlying discomfort at the bottom of this.

[Kess]

Can I just ask, is this common in cockers?

[PennyB]

Guarding etc. can happen in any dog and actually is 'normal' behaviour for a dog albeit inappropriate for domestic living (try reading the Culture Clash as it makes very interesting reading)

[kb]

I was given a  good piece of advice touse with food and bone guarding etc. Honey doesn't food guard, but she did guard bones etc.

Instead of taknig food away from her, I was told to actually drop a treat in her direction while she was eating a bone or to add treats to her bowl if she was eating.

I am not saying you should do this or that it will work for you. Just really giving an example of how things can be truned around. But in our case we used it to help Honey learn that we were no threat to her. We weren't going to take her food away, in fact we were going to give her extra.

After a while she was actually happy to lie down at my feet with her bone, whereas before she growled if I as much as looked at her.

You have been given good advice here, particularly by Mark, who knows what he is about.

I wish you luck.

[Ben's mum]

you could be describing my Ben!
It does get better - you have been given good advice already.  We used a behaviourist, on several different occasions to help us adress issues and Ben has come on leaps and bounds.
Like Jan/Billy says some days you just have to accept that they will not swop things or may be more possessive etc.
I have come to the conclusion that i am not going to take anything away from Ben that he scavanges unless it will be positively dangerous to his health it is not worht the battle it involves.

I know Ben would bite on certain days, but i am also resureed that they are nips and grazes not real bites and he could inflict these if he wanted so he is just letting me know how he is feeling.

The last year Ben has been brilliant - he is never going to be an  its just not him, but we have learned how to live with him and how best to manage situations and it works.

I am sure if you get the right advice and support you can achive this too.  Don't set Louie up to be perfect then you won't be disapointed, just make him as safe around you and your family as you can, learn what makes him tick and then enjoy him, he sounds like a real personality which can also be a blessing
Good luck

Bens mum

[phoenix]

Ooops, sounds like Ben may be my little fella's partner in crime (or relation).
They do get through this when you learn how  not to react, what they are after is attention. Ignore them and they abandon stolen goods and  come up for cuddles looking guilty.  The trainers at our first classes spent extra time, free, giving us loads of help and advice. Then with all the advice on Col, we understood his doggy mind  and we can laugh at his attempts to outdo us!. The only time I really had to confront him, was over  a full box of Go-Cat from my shopping bag, and I had to shove a wire waste paper bin over his head. He would have eaten it all otherwise. He sulked for hours. I felt soo bad, but I had to do it.
Even so, I do not feel I can trust him with children because he has no experience of them, and I sympathise with the enormity of the problem you are trying to resolve. My children grew up with a soppy labrador, I grew up with a soppy bulldog. Your child must come first.I do hope you take heart from the trainers wise words because you may still be able to sort it out like the rest of us.

[cazza]

It is inappropriate to refer to a specific case without seeing the dog or taking a full history

I'm afraid to say that a dog obedience class is not the answer to an agression problem.
Aggression is often context specific.

Totally agree 

Hope the insurance will pay out for a behaviourist and that you find a qualified and spaniel savvy one - Good luck 

[JB]

Thank you very much for all of your comments/advice once again especially Mark at TopBarks. I have watched one or two of your videos on your website and am quite keen on Louie bringing me a bottle of water from from the fridge on command 

Seriously though, I am having trouble contacting my insurance company at the mo but will try again to get a definitive answer re behaviourist help. I do think it is a no though from reading their paperwork. I will also perhaps try the Dog Trust and/or Blue Cross for advice.

I am continuing with my daily handling sessions with Louie (keeping them brief as he doesn't like it for too long) and I will do the training that Mark has suggested. Just out of interest, the thinking behind hand feeding and handling.....is that not a "reinforcing the pack order" method i.e. suggesting to the dog that i decide how much and when he eats and he needs to be submissive when I check him over.

Just thought I would give a few more examples of what we do/what he does:

1) When someone knocks at the door, he almost flies across the room, jumps up on the sofa and sits on the window sill barking and looking who is at the door. I read elsewhere (on the Spaniel Trust website I think) that this is a leadership thing. He is the leader and greeting the intruder before we do.
2) He sometimes (not always) when we have finished our dinners (say we are eating off a tray in the lounge), if we do not take the trays out as soon as we have finished, he will start barking as if to demand that we take trays out so that he can see if he has some leftovers. This suggests to me that he is being bossy but I know that others disagree with the whole "pecking order" scenario. Needless to say if he does this, he get nothing.
3) He always pulls on the lead when walking (always has done). We went from a lead to a harness about 18 months ago and the pulling improved momentarily but then went back to pulling shortly after. I have tried different methods, pulling him back saying "heel", having him on a short lead, a long lead and standing still as soon as he pulls but none of them have really helped. Maybe lead pulling is a completely separate issue to his aggression though ?
4) On the subject of leftovers, treats - he has leftovers from us every now and again. Should we stop this completely ? He is not overweight but is it another thing we should cut out ? He has a treat every night when he goes to bed - this means that as soon as he comes in from garden, he patiently sits in his bed waiting for the treat before he settles down - is this a bad thing ? He will never ever do what you tell him to without a treat i.e. if I want him to get into his bed in the kitchen so that my daughter can play without him mooching around, he will stand and look at his bed as if to say "why would I want to do that ?". As soon as I go to the treat jar, he is in his bed like a shot waiting for his reward. He should be doing things like this without rewards though, right ?

Sorry for going on a bit again, I thought maybe some more examples of his behaviour, what we do and do not do may help us get inside his head a bit and highlight some more areas we could work on.