Chloe is up for rehoming - updated!

[SkyeSue]

Thanks for your support folks 
It's really not like me to be negative about things, I guess I have to get a grip here and say that I'm very lucky to have people to hopefully help me out. There is NO WAY I would "give up" on Chloe without giving her absolutely every possible chance to live here and be happy and safe. I guess I'm just feeling a bit paranoid at the moment, and visualising the worst case scenario...I will stop it at once....I will, I will, I will 

[*jean*]

I personally would not let any of my dogs near a tup. my friends dog has a permanent bad leg from an injury we think she got from a tup.( broken leg , pinned , nerve damage) you met jodie, sue, on our embo walk.
 A tup smashed its head at very close quarters at clipping, to the leg of a friend. It completely destroyed his knee. They have some force. even a ewe if it gets the dog trapped, ie against a fence, can kill a wee dog like chloe. Ive seen a ewe hammer 7 bells out of our collie and he was tied up to the fence while we were dosing the flock, she really meant him harm. He was ok I got between them and threatened her with my crook!!

 weve had endless chats about this, I think you still may have to send her away for training to richard if it doesnt work out with mary.

 and yes a dogs life is at risk every time it chases sheep. ( or any livestock) the dog doesnt have to be shot by the farmer or in this case crofter.. all they have to do is report you and your dog to the police. if it happens again the courts have the power to take your dog to be destroyed.
 If this had happened where I live, by now you would have had an official warning, so I think on skye they arent too harsh.

[Joules]

What a nightmare for you Sue - I hope you manage to solve the problem.    I do believe it is possible though with persistent training.  A year ago, I really thought I would never be able to let Coco in the field with my alpacas - she would chase them at every opportunity and although she only wanted to play, they did not see it that way    With encouragement and support from here, I managed to train her to ignore them and now she takes very little notice of them at all and will potter in the field when I am out there.  I have found a solid whistle recall a big help.   

We have a lot of sheep and lambs around here too and so I am very conscious of keeping her under control around them - I still don't totally trust her and would never knowingly walk her off lead near livestock but the other week we came round a corner and came upon a field full of sheep and lambs - Coco ran towards them, I blew my whistle and she came straight back - I was soooo proud!!    A year ago she would have taken no notice at all      It does take time but I am sure you will get there.  In the meantime you just have to prevent her getting any opportunity to chase as they more often she does it the more she is rewarded. 

[Helen]

I personally would not let any of my dogs near a tup. my friends dog has a permanent bad leg from an injury we think she got from a tup.( broken leg , pinned , nerve damage) you met jodie, sue, on our embo walk.
 A tup smashed its head at very close quarters at clipping, to the leg of a friend. It completely destroyed his knee. They have some force. even a ewe if it gets the dog trapped, ie against a fence, can kill a wee dog like chloe. Ive seen a ewe hammer 7 bells out of our collie and he was tied up to the fence while we were dosing the flock, she really meant him harm. He was ok I got between them and threatened her with my crook!!

 weve had endless chats about this, I think you still may have to send her away for training to richard if it doesnt work out with mary.

 and yes a dogs life is at risk every time it chases sheep. ( or any livestock) the dog doesnt have to be shot by the farmer or in this case crofter.. all they have to do is report you and your dog to the police. if it happens again the courts have the power to take your dog to be destroyed.
 If this had happened where I live, by now you would have had an official warning, so I think on skye they arent too harsh.

I agree with everything except 'sending her away for training' - I think 'residentials' are pointless - the owner needs to be the one doing the training so to work with Richard training Chloe would be better IMHO

[SkyeSue]

I agree with everything except 'sending her away for training' - I think 'residentials' are pointless - the owner needs to be the one doing the training so to work with Richard training Chloe would be better IMHO

I have e-mailed Richard, outlining what I consider to be our training priorities, and said the exact same thing Helen. If he can help us work together then fine, but I don't want to send her away. If he feels it is better to have Chloe on a residential basis, whilst I would totally respect his opinion, I just don't think it would be right for us.

[Top Barks]

I personally would not let any of my dogs near a tup. my friends dog has a permanent bad leg from an injury we think she got from a tup.( broken leg , pinned , nerve damage) you met jodie, sue, on our embo walk.
 A tup smashed its head at very close quarters at clipping, to the leg of a friend. It completely destroyed his knee. They have some force. even a ewe if it gets the dog trapped, ie against a fence, can kill a wee dog like chloe. Ive seen a ewe hammer 7 bells out of our collie and he was tied up to the fence while we were dosing the flock, she really meant him harm. He was ok I got between them and threatened her with my crook!!


 

This was my worry also

[Top Barks]

I personally would not let any of my dogs near a tup. my friends dog has a permanent bad leg from an injury we think she got from a tup.( broken leg , pinned , nerve damage) you met jodie, sue, on our embo walk.
 A tup smashed its head at very close quarters at clipping, to the leg of a friend. It completely destroyed his knee. They have some force. even a ewe if it gets the dog trapped, ie against a fence, can kill a wee dog like chloe. Ive seen a ewe hammer 7 bells out of our collie and he was tied up to the fence while we were dosing the flock, she really meant him harm. He was ok I got between them and threatened her with my crook!!

 weve had endless chats about this, I think you still may have to send her away for training to richard if it doesnt work out with mary.

 and yes a dogs life is at risk every time it chases sheep. ( or any livestock) the dog doesnt have to be shot by the farmer or in this case crofter.. all they have to do is report you and your dog to the police. if it happens again the courts have the power to take your dog to be destroyed.
 If this had happened where I live, by now you would have had an official warning, so I think on skye they arent too harsh.

I agree with everything except 'sending her away for training' - I think 'residentials' are pointless - the owner needs to be the one doing the training so to work with Richard training Chloe would be better IMHO

Two sides to that argument really, I do agree with Helen in that I spend most of my time training the owners when I work. I usually can get the dogs to do what i want pretty quickly, it's just getting so that the owner can have the same control which is the hard part.
The owners body language and cues may confuse the dog where a trainers may be more consistent and clear.
so I see there are benefits to training the dog to perform certain actions by someone who knows what they're doing as long as that person is prepared to then spend time with the owner showing how to cue each behaviour.

 However personally I like to know why a dog does something and what pushes its buttons in the first place and I also think that the relationship you have with your dog is key to getting them to work for you in the long run no matter how much training they've had in the past.
I want my dog to work for me and not someone else!!
You could send your dog away and it come back a champion in the making, but if the owner then isn't worth working for in the dogs eyes then the training will be in vein.

[Mrs K]

Sue, I just spotted this thread as not been around much in last couple of days. Big hugs to you, thinking of you, sorry no advice, just love 

[Cob-Web]

There is NO WAY I would "give up" on Chloe without giving her absolutely every possible chance to live here and be happy and safe. I guess I'm just feeling a bit paranoid at the moment, and visualising the worst case scenario...I will stop it at once....I will, I will, I will 

Aw Sue - I really feel for you - but take heart, because having read your posts on this thread and elsewhere - I don't think that  "the worst" case scenario in terms of Chloes life with you would ever be as bad as you fear    You may have to adapt the way you exercise Chloe - and keep her on a short, secure lead in areas where she "may" be able to access livestock, but she would still have a fabulous quality of life with you, and I am sure that you can beg, borrow or steal access to safe land to give her off-lead exercise.

I know it would be culturally very different to the way in which your neighbours manage their dogs, but as you have learnt, they take these risks in the knowledge that when something goes wrong, the dog is expendable, whereas Chloe is your loved and cherished pet and so the level of risk you take with her needs to be (understandably) far lower 

It obviously isn't the image of dog ownership you had in mind; I used to dream of hiking for miles with a dog running loose at my side - but the reality for me is that there are too many hazards (not only livestock, but traffic and in-season bitches  ) for that to be possible. We still get a great deal of pleasure from our hiking and use other opportunities for offlead exercise, usually on the days when we don't go hiking 

Remember too that Chloe is at a difficult age, and this problem may be one that takes months, or even over a year to resolve    Molo was a total b*gger for running off at about 12 months old - he disappeared on a COL meet in Surrey, and caused mayhem on Ryde sefront on August Bank Holiday running in and out of the traffic after chasing the seagulls for half a mile along the beach 

In order to resolve it, he was not exercised off-lead anywhere other than in totally secure spaces for about a year - there was no point in setting him up to fail - so he never went off lead when we went for a "walk" and there was a chance I would need to call him back - if it was suitable, we'd use a longline, but if not, then we walked and ran a range and variety of routes on a a short lead to give him the stimulation he needed.  I used to cry sometimes, thinking he would never be able to go offlead - but the delight I felt when we went to a COL meet and he could run in areas with phessies, rabbits and horses (in the distance) secure in the knowledge that he would come back when called was fabulous 

[Helen]

I personally would not let any of my dogs near a tup. my friends dog has a permanent bad leg from an injury we think she got from a tup.( broken leg , pinned , nerve damage) you met jodie, sue, on our embo walk.
 A tup smashed its head at very close quarters at clipping, to the leg of a friend. It completely destroyed his knee. They have some force. even a ewe if it gets the dog trapped, ie against a fence, can kill a wee dog like chloe. Ive seen a ewe hammer 7 bells out of our collie and he was tied up to the fence while we were dosing the flock, she really meant him harm. He was ok I got between them and threatened her with my crook!!


 

This was my worry also

Sue - how is Mary planning to work with Chloe ?  You need to be 100 percent happy - I would not never tether a dog to anything to prevent it's escape from any livestock in any situation.   If it's a big pen where Chloe can exit out of quickly and safely then I still would consider doing this  

Maybe I have ruined my dog (I don't think so really  ) but by exposing him in very controlled situations to stock he has learnt that they are not friendly, they're not to be played with and are best keeping very clear of.  His recall is strong anyway but knowing that I can walk him through a field of stock (like today) to heel with him completely ignoring them makes me very very happy.

keep us posted   

[Oliver21508]

I still can't believe that farmers can shoot dogs that are chasing sheep. It's just about money, not the love of the sheep. If a dog kills a sheep, it's a lose of money, and I don't think a dog should be punished for it. A dog is only doing what comes naturally to it.

[Joules]

I still can't believe that farmers can shoot dogs that are chasing sheep. It's just about money, not the love of the sheep. If a dog kills a sheep, it's a lose of money, and I don't think a dog should be punished for it. A dog is only doing what comes naturally to it.

It may seem harsh but dogs cannot be allowed to worry or injure livestock.  The money is not the farmer's only concern - although it is his livelihood so he is entitled to consider it - but the welfare of the sheep is important too.  I know from my own experience what it is like to have animals stressed and injured by out of control dogs and it is not nice 

[*jean*]

I think as well that chloe is likely going through her teenage  phase in which they like teenagers just seem to forget all the rules! but with persistence things normally sort themselves out. try not to get too stressed as you arent alone in this by a long chalk. 
 my lot are ok around sheep and I do take them in and around the sheep.. I actually use my spaniels to help me with the sheep. but Its not automatic, loads of training went into it. daily walks through the flocks.
 And the reason I suggested to "send" chloe to a trainer is there isnt one on skye and  it will take some weeks perhaps, and not everyone is lucky enough to have a trainer nearby  so you can go regularly or be financially solvent to get time off work as well as pay for training .Obviously the trainer will need to work with you as well. I dont think he would want it any other way, theres no point in training any animal and not the owner as what would be gained? that goes for your friend mary or anyone else you decide on.
 My lot are certainly not perfect.. pepper is a madam and will take the len of me still at 11 and a half. just last week she legged it through 2 crofts after a rabbit. there were no sheep there but if there had been she would have run straight through them to get the rabbit, nightmare!
 chloe is a smashing wee dog and you are  doing your best and you WILL get there.! 

[*jean*]

I still can't believe that farmers can shoot dogs that are chasing sheep. It's just about money, not the love of the sheep. If a dog kills a sheep, it's a lose of money, and I don't think a dog should be punished for it. A dog is only doing what comes naturally to it.

a sheep feels pain and fear like any living animal. even a sheep going on its back can kill it. we get little enough for our sheep at market, 30 pounds for a lamb is a good price. think of all the work that goes into it, I get up at 5am to go round the sheep that are lambing . The last round is at darkening. this goes on for weeks. Its a hard life,and certainly wont make a crofter rich. every crofter has a 2nd job here as you cant make a living off the croft alone.
 AND a lot of shepherds dont have a gun. 

[johndoran]

I didn't think for a moment that you would let anything happen to Chloe you only have to read about your life with her and your photos to see how much she means to you. I was just wondering that if its not a year round problem would it be possable to maybe keep Chloe on a lead and try and find some sheep free areas.