I can't control him!!! :(

[Oliver21508]

Thanks. He's been doing better this evening, he started barking at the pigeons off lead in the garden, and we called him from the house, and he came running in, so we gave him a treat, and we did it again too. So we are going to try to train him to do this, so that we have control over his barking.

I think I'll get a clicker next time I'm in a pet shop to do these tricks. We do agility every other day, and he really enjoys this, but we only do it for about 5-10 mins. We are going to see if he can go off lead tomorrow at the country park cos it's a different place and he's always been good at recall there. But if he doesn't do well, then he'll just go on long line and we can train him from scratch.

[SkyeSue]

Thanks. He's been doing better this evening, he started barking at the pigeons off lead in the garden, and we called him from the house, and he came running in, so we gave him a treat, and we did it again too. So we are going to try to train him to do this, so that we have control over his barking.

I think I'll get a clicker next time I'm in a pet shop to do these tricks. We do agility every other day, and he really enjoys this, but we only do it for about 5-10 mins. We are going to see if he can go off lead tomorrow at the country park cos it's a different place and he's always been good at recall there. But if he doesn't do well, then he'll just go on long line and we can train him from scratch.

Laura, as you might know, I'm having problems with Chloe too and I definitely find that we have good days and bad days. Have you done any reading? Some of the recommended books on here are really good and help you to gain a better understanding of humans relationships with their dogs. I personally have learnt such a lot by taking the time to read. You will learn that its not about "controlling" your dog, but much about the kind of relationship and bond you have with him that is the key. Re the clicker, you need to read up a bit on it before you start; I think I posted a link on one of your previous threads to Candis Clicker training, where you can get free weekly lessons by e-mail to give you the basics. Stick with it and keep learning.

[Jeanette]

Thanks. He's been doing better this evening, he started barking at the pigeons off lead in the garden, and we called him from the house, and he came running in, so we gave him a treat, and we did it again too. So we are going to try to train him to do this, so that we have control over his barking.

Thats recall training whether at home or away.   All recall training starts at home so even though you say recall was 100% this should have applied at home.

I'm surprised your training course didn't do clicker training as most do these days and you can clicker train for virtually anything.   I went to a first puppy training course and they used clicker training to do sit, down etc.   However we didn't really get on with the classroom environment and the full extent of clicker training was not realised in my eyes until I met with my  new trainer and she showed me how to use it successfully, the most amazing thing I found when she was doing clicker training with my dog first was that Indie was using her brain to find out what was required from her, there were no commands at first and my trainer was completely silent and you could see Indie using her brain and trying to figure out what was required.   

It truely was amazing to see how my dog was so intelligent.   Indie has been clicker trained for every behaviour we didn't want in our house from jumping up, to chasing my son, to going to her bed on command, you name it you can clicker train everything.    I don't use the clicker these days as the behaviour and the word commands are all set now.    If you haven't access to a trainer who uses these positive methods then maybe worth buying a Karen Pryor's clicker training book  http://www.clickertraining.com/ and Sue has also given you a good link but there is nothing better than seeing a dog trainer work with your dog to see the results that can be achieved rather than trying to muddle through yourself and get it wrong.   

Good luck Laura, theres nothing thats been said that hasn't been said before.   

[Mudmagnets]

Re the clicker training: Mary Ray does some good videos too, I have 'An evening with Mary Ray' where she starts off clicker training a pup, going on to show you how she trains her dogs for anything, including her Crufts routines. Two routines are included on the DVD.

Might be worth a look? 

She also writes books

[Jeanette]

Also Laura I don't think enough is emphasised about positive clicker training and reward methods when a dog is doing something that has not been requested.    I think a lot of it stems from thinking to reward when a command has been isssued but thats not always the case for training.  

Rewards should be given when a puppy/dog is doing the correct thing whether asked for it or not, for example we did lots of training with the chasing of my son in the hall of our home with Indie on a lead, if she stayed still while he ran in front of her like children do then she got clicked and rewarded, she learn't that the positive of this was not to chase him rather than giving a command to not chase him iyswim.

If you need to go out in the garden and Ollie is quiet then the click and treat would apply.   There really is no point trying to just drag him in from the garden just because he is barking, he is never going to learn not to bark.    

Click and rewards were given in our house for virtually everything I was pleased with (by me), whether that be sitting nicely in the room playing with her toy when I hadn't asked her to etc iyswim.   Its not just about giving commands and expecting obeying.   They learn themselves from what they are doing at that precise moment and if they doing something that is acceptable then reward.   But I am going from puppy training but guess back to basics can always be applied and rewards are not only issued on command iyswim.  

I hope that doesn't come across as just waffle, it is Saturday night after all.   
    

[emderpenguin]

Thanks. He's been doing better this evening, he started barking at the pigeons off lead in the garden, and we called him from the house, and he came running in, so we gave him a treat, and we did it again too. So we are going to try to train him to do this, so that we have control over his barking.

Just a quick thought, but I wouldn't START from here, clicker training or not.

You really need to go RIGHT back to basics. Let him out in the garden for a few seconds, call his name, let him back. Then a few more seconds. Keep doing it, but gradually increase the time.

If you read what you're written there 'Ollie barked, we called him, he came and we gave him a treat' and think about it from ollie's point of view 'I BARKED, human said my name and fed me' you'll see you're re-enforceing the exact behaviour you're trying to avoid.

[Oliver21508]

We didn't want to use clicker training because we went to a puppy training class where they did it, and we did not understand it at all and saw it as a bit pointless. How can I train him not to bark without a clicker?

[Jeanette]

We didn't want to use clicker training because we went to a puppy training class where they did it, and we did not understand it at all and saw it as a bit pointless. How can I train him not to bark without a clicker?

Its not pointless 

[Joules]

We didn't want to use clicker training because we went to a puppy training class where they did it, and we did not understand it at all and saw it as a bit pointless. How can I train him not to bark without a clicker?

Its not pointless 

Clicker training is excellent and it works    Lots of people on here (including Mark Topbarks) use it to great effect but you must use it correctly so if you don't understand it I suggest you get someone who does to explain it to you or show you how to use it. 

I can't see why you would keep Ollie on a lead even in the garden   Do you really need to "control" him all the time?  One of the reasons I love cockers so much is that they do have a mind of their own and they are intelligent - I would not want to "control" Coco, just make her behave in an acceptable manner and be safe    IMO it is not fair to try to control a dog totally and repress their personality to get them to behave as we say all the time.  Ollie is a dog and he is acting as dogs do which is surely not a problem?  You may have a few months ahead of teenage behaviour so you need to find a way that works for you and stick to it    I found that if Coco had plenty of exercise and stimulation she was far calmer and easier to manage at home - you have to keep him busy and not let him get too bored, running around for an hour is not enough for a lively cocker imo - back to clicker training again 

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

I think it helps to change the way you look at things that are going wrong. Rather than thinking of them as problems or issues think of them as training oppertunities, puzzles and a chance to do some bonding with your dog.

If Ollie had been born fully trained and you hadnt worked together the way you have you wouldnt have the bond with him that you do now.

A dog that automatically did what you wanted every time would be boring, cockers are challenging and make us think which is why they are such great pets 

I really agree with the others about the clicker training and strongly suggest you read Karen Pryors Dont Shoot The Dog. It is not a training book as in it will explain to you do A,B,C,D but is the book that made me really uderstand how dogs think and learn and how to use a clicker. The best thing about it is once you really understand how a clicker works, how to break behaviours down and shape them you can work out yourself how to use the clicker and be really inventive with it.

I used it once when Jack had a nasty cut on his front paw, hes normally fine with people touching them but had growled at my OH when he tried to look. With fifteen minutes sat with the clicker I had his paw in my hand, trimmed the fur back with sisors and had cleaned the wound with his tail wagging the whole time. The alternative would of been holding him down and really stressing him out.

Clickers are great and can be used for so many things once you get your head around how they work. I have also found that clicker trained behaviours seem to stay with the dog better.

Clickers also mean you get to be more inventive with your rewards, again that means you have to really think and plan your training which is really fun to do (or that might just be for sad people like me  )

We use different value food, different toys, balls, sniffing, access to other dogs, getting closer to what they want all sorts of thing.

Its all about letting your dog think its doing what it wants and it was their idea in the first place.

One thing thats really good about a clicker trained dog is they are very confident at trying new things and like to offer you behaviours so you can click the ones you like and ignore what you dont. It makes training much faster when that lightbulb goes on in their heads that will have them trying new things to get the click.

Yes the timing has to be spot on and i learnt mine by teaching Jack to touch a target stick, its really easy to do and really helps you see whats happening and improve your timing.

 

[Mudmagnets]

We didn't want to use clicker training because we went to a puppy training class where they did it, and we did not understand it at all and saw it as a bit pointless. How can I train him not to bark without a clicker?

Its not pointless 

Laura

Before you commit Clicker Training to the bin (or room 101) as useless, why not try to get to a training class, or watch a video of it in action, Learning new things is a challenge - as you have found out with Ollie, and have succeeded in lots of ways.

Peeps on the forum are really trying to help you here so it is a tad unfair to poopoo their ideas without giving them a fair chance don't you think?? 



 

[Oliver21508]

I don't really want to get a book or anything. I don't see how the dog knows what it has to do to get the click if you don't tell it. So you have to wait until the dog sits, and then click, and then after a few times, you then add sit? So you have to wait for him to do the behaviour you want first?

Ollie was good at the country park today, he was on long line, and we practiced recall and he was really good, came back more often than not. But he also does this thing of running towards you and then right at the last minute, swerves around you and goes sniffing. So he knows he has to come but he's just being cheeky and saying "you can't catch me", which probably came from the garden antics.

Ollie's on a lead in the garden, because he barks at the pigeons. Which I still don't know how to train him out of it yet. If he's off lead, we can't control his barking, and then we have to go and catch him from the garden, which involves all the chasing etc. The only time I don't want to "control" him is when he's in the house. Outside, he needs to be under my control and respect me.

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

Well if you want him to respect you maybe start by respecting him for who he is.
Respect has to be earned not demanded.
If hes coming back then swaying off course there is a reason hes avioding you and doesnt see coming back to you as something good.
If you dont want to read books then just give up now, im sorry if that sounds harsh but whats the point in all this fantastic advice people have taken the time to give you if you just ignore it.

If you cant understand clicking at least learn about it FROM THE BOOKS before you completly dismiss it. Dismissing something because you dont understand it is just plain ignorance.

Im sorry if this post is seen as out of order but its just how I feel at the time of posting

Jusr wanted to add my dogs do, do as they are asked but thats because I put alot of work into us being a team. They want to do what I ASK of them because its good for them and I dont demand they do it.

[SkyeSue]

Well if you want him to respect you maybe start by respecting him for who he is.
Respect has to be earned not demanded.
If hes coming back then swaying off course there is a reason hes avioding you and doesnt see coming back to you as something good.
If you dont want to read books then just give up now, im sorry if that sounds harsh but whats the point in all this fantastic advice people have taken the time to give you if you just ignore it.

If you cant understand clicking at least learn about it FROM THE BOOKS before you completly dismiss it. Dismissing something because you dont understand it is just plain ignorance.

Im sorry if this post is seen as out of order but its just how I feel at the time of posting

I feel exactly the same way. Why don't you want to read books Laura? I can't understand why you don't want to learn as much as possible about training and living with your dog.

[Jeanette]

Well if you want him to respect you maybe start by respecting him for who he is.
Respect has to be earned not demanded.
If hes coming back then swaying off course there is a reason hes avioding you and doesnt see coming back to you as something good.
If you dont want to read books then just give up now, im sorry if that sounds harsh but whats the point in all this fantastic advice people have taken the time to give you if you just ignore it.

If you cant understand clicking at least learn about it FROM THE BOOKS before you completly dismiss it. Dismissing something because you dont understand it is just plain ignorance.

Im sorry if this post is seen as out of order but its just how I feel at the time of posting

I feel exactly the same way. Why don't you want to read books Laura? I can't understand why you don't want to learn as much as possible about training and living with your dog.

Feel the same way, all the posts are like a broken record.