Salmon oil - do you add vitamin E supplement?

[darby]

The last 2 posts gave some good information.

I checked 'Fish4dogs salmon complete' as an example. It has 400iu/kg. My largest dog Darby gets 120g of Burns so going by that figure, with Fish4dogs he gets 48iu. Online it seems for a medium sized dogs they should be getting around 200iu. Also that email from Fish4dogs says that a dog can't get too much vitamin E. Supposedly vitamin E is stored in their body so you only need to top it up maybe twice a week. Plus there are other advantages to using vitamin E.

I get alot of stuff for me and my dogs from iherb. Really good site. I just ordered some 'Vitamin E-Oil'. The bottles have a long expiry date and last forever once you keep them in the fridge. For my 4 cockers one small bottle will hopefully last up to 8 weeks- for less than €10 - not bad I suppose??.

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-100-Natural-E-Oil-4-fl-oz-118-ml/566

In saying that alot of people using salmon oil say there is no need for vitamin E. Confusing or what?

[Neon]

Thanks for the link.  Yes, it is confusing when you try and do the best for your pet but hey ho, carry on regardless. 

[darby]

Just got this email from www.lintbells.co.uk

I use their jointcare supplement Yumove which has some vitamin E and I also cheekily asked how much vitamin E to add to dog food if giving salmon oil.

The upshot is that we would have to use a special calculation to work it out and it ain't easy getting the parameters. Anyhow, after reading online I am going to try 200 iu to start - this should be alright for a medium cocker. Also Healthy Hounds salmon oil hope to bring to market a vitamin E supplement - they also suggested 200 iu and starting off to get a good quality oil from a health store.

"Please accept my apologies for the delay in getting back to you. To answer your first question, the Vitamin E content in each Yumove tablet is 0.5mg. This provides antioxidant effects within the context of Yumove supplementation but does not give you any ‘spare’ Vitamin E if you are adding other fatty acids to your dog’s diet.

Regarding calculating the Vit E requirements for adding other oils to your dog’s diet, I can give you the equation to work it out for yourself, but you’d need to know the fatty acid breakdown of the oil you are using (our analyses cover over 40 different fatty acids which we then calculate Vitamin E requirements in relation to that).

You also need to understand what the oxidation status for the oil is. The higher the oxidation of the oil, the more Vitamin E would be used up simply coping with the oxidation byproducts (free radicals) in the oil itself. In our experience, the majority of fish oils (particularly cheap ones) have high oxidation scores and therefore require high levels of antioxidants just to cope with free radicals. That’s why we only sell Salmopet (and it’s the only oil we’ll use in our other formulas such as Yumega Plus). It is more expensive (3x more than other salmon oils we could buy), but the quality parameters are vastly better."

[elaine.e]

I was cheeky enough to email holistic vet Nick Thompson about this a couple of days ago. I know him very slightly from attending 2 seminars run by the dog training club that I belong to, where Nick came and talked about raw feeding and other health related subjects. I think he remembers me because he liked the cake I made for the afternoon tea breaks at the seminars .

This is what Nick said;

"This is a sticky problem, Elaine, as there are so many variables! The easiest answer is to just double the dose of E taken if you're feeding any quantity of oil. Usual dose for medium dog is about 200iu twice daily.  You need to add it as Vit E is fat soluble and can be bound up in the other oils or it may be that the omega 3 makes you use up the vit E more quickly - they don't know exactly."

William and Louis have 2.5ml. of Omega-3 Deluxe oil every day. It's apparently one of the most pure and best quality ones and contains oil from sustainable sources of anchovies, herrings and sardines. But it sounds like I should still supplement with Vitamin E. I know there's some in William's joint supplement (Riaflex) but only he has that, not Louis, and I can't possibly work out how much is in their raw diet, so I think the simplest way is going to be to supplement them both with 200iu Vitamin E daily.......I think!

[Neon]

I've just come across this, which is well worth reading:

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/87685-i-almost-killed-my.html

[Jane57]

Really wishing I hadn't read this thread a few days before I go on holiday and leave Riley with my parents.
I give him salmon oil and evening primrose oil thankfully it has vit e added into it.

Internet can be useful but very scary at times.

[Neon]

Internet can be useful but very scary at times.

Indeed it is.  Toby has been on salmon oil for over a year now and I shall probably take him off it.  

[Jane57]

This is really confusing now    Just checked his kronch salmon oil, that has vit E added.
Just checked his eden dog food, that too has Vit e added.

Not sure if the Evening primrose has or not.
So no further forward to whether should give vitamin e or not.

[darby]

I've just come across this, which is well worth reading:

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/87685-i-almost-killed-my.html

I don't know alot about this area but I have often read on other forums people giving 'human' supplements to their dog. This is fine if you know the exact dosage for your dog.

I would imagine it could be very easy to over dose in this situation. In that linked article the owner was giving 8 fish oil tablets a day without supplementing with vitamin E.

8? Large breed dog but 8??

I have just started on a salmon oil. The instructions say to give 1 pump up to 12kg, which equals about 1 teaspoon and which works out be 4 ml. Very small. I have ordered some vitamin E oil which I hope to get next week. I think that amount of salmon oil is very small. I'll keep an eye out all the same.

I have checked a few sources and I think there is no harm in adding vitamin E.

Likewise I think a good quality fish oil is a good addition. Personally I wouldn't use 'human' supplements - but that is just me.

The linked article was interesting to read but there is always something like that on the net. I mean if you go looking for information on flaxseed oil as an omega source and a way of getting a shiney coat for your dog, there are a huge number of conflicting articles - some say dogs, especially older dogs with heart problems, can't process the omeaga from flaxseed.

At times it is hard to know.

[Neon]

Thanks Darby.  

I thought 8 tablets was a large dose but she did seem to justify by saying he was a large dog.

I didn't feed the salmon oil tonight and will keep him off it until I get the vitamin E sorted out.  

Where have you ordered your vit E from, by the way?

[darby]

Thanks Darby.  

I thought 8 tablets was a large dose but she did seem to justify by saying he was a large dog.

I didn't feed the salmon oil tonight and will keep him off it until I get the vitamin E sorted out.  

Where have you ordered your vit E from, by the way?

There is a really good online store called www.iherb.com - not sure if you have used it before? The postage is very low ~$4 (ordinary post is the best option) even though it is coming from the States. Just read up on the customs info. for the UK on the website. For Ireland total order value can't be greater than $50-$60 and this gets through customs everytime.

As a first time user you can use a referral code from an existing customer which gives a $5 or $10 discount depending on how much you order.

Mine is: WKM089
(Anyone is welcome to use that if they want.)

The product I ordered is:
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-100-Natural-E-Oil-4-fl-oz-118-ml/566

Going by your link above this is supposed to be the right type of vitamin E to use. In saying that I haven't used it yet so I don't know how good it is.
Here is some extra info: http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/FAQs/M010620.htm

Healthy Hounds told me that a quality one from a health store would do. Someone else said that they use vitamin E tabs in Tesco.

I am sure one from a health store would be fine - I only order from iHerb as I save a few euros - it is a good company as I get lots of supplements for myself and for my older dog.

[Neon]

Darby

Thanks for that. X

[elaine.e]

Dorwest  wheatgerm oil capsules are a vitamin E supplement for dogs and cats http://www.dorwest.com/Products/WGO/wheatgerm-oil-capsules-for-dogs-and-cats

[Neon]

Dorwest  wheatgerm oil capsules are a vitamin E supplement for dogs and cats http://www.dorwest.com/Products/WGO/wheatgerm-oil-capsules-for-dogs-and-cats

Wonderful, thanks Elaine. 

[Anita D]

I've decided to drop putting fish oil on their raw food and instead give them one meal a week of sardines. They come as a complete nutritional package. Copied from the web:

Sardines the small, silver colored fish are also known as pilchards. You can enjoy them as a healthy snack or regular meal due to the various nutrients the fish contains. Pilchards are an oily fish, which are very rich in omega-3 fatty acids. They contain no carbohydrates, which helps to stabilize blood sugar levels. This fish is one of the rich sources of fish protein. It contains vitamins, A, B, C, D and E. Various minerals occur in the fish such as iron, calcium, selenium, magnesium, phosphorous and potassium. It is also one of the few foods that contain the antioxidant, Coenzyme Q10. Sardines have several health benefits.