I'm Sorry........BARF Advice Needed......Again.....I Really Am Sorry.....

[CraftySam]

I'm sorry about this but I need to check something out with you knowledgable ones.

You may recall that I started my lot off on BARF and we had lots of diarrhea. They had been fine on the AMP blocks, so I decided to do a trial to see if I could work out what upset them.

So I'd give AMP Block in a morning and then one of the following on a night, if there had been no diarrhea.
- Chicken Wings
- Pork Ribs
- Freeflow Beef Mince
- Mixed Offal (heart, kidney, liver)
- Sardines & Egg
- AMP Block with portion of veg (to check if anything in the veg upset them)

We didn't have any diarrhea. Sometimes the poo was softer than others but definitely no diarrhea.

So on Thursday they went back onto BARF proper. Thursday they had wings in the morning and sardines & egg for tea. Friday they had pork ribs in the morning and mince & veg for tea.

At 5am this morning Sapphi woke me up, only happens when there is something the matter, so I let her out and she had diarrhea. Later on Max did too, though Barney seemed ok.

I have one theory, which might be rubbish so I'd like to know your thoughts please.  The AMP block has ground bone which makes them firmer, if their stomachs are not used to digesting complete bones yet, could this be a reason for their poo not being firmed up? We've noticed pieces of bone in their poo, which I know the book says is normal in the beginning.
Should I continue for a couple of weeks so their stomachs can get used to digesting bone?

The only other thing I can think of is that they are not having enough bone content. This is what they get:

Barney - 12.7kg - 200g wings/ribs  160g mince/offal/sardines    40g veg/1 egg
Sapphi - 29.7kg - 300g wings/ribs  220g mince/offal/sardines    70g veg/2 eggs
Max - 35.5kg  -  350g wings/ribs   270g mince/offal/sardines    80g veg/2 eggs

Sapphi and Max were on more but both put on quite a bit of weight so I've dropped them back and might need to again as they've not lost any.

Sorry for bugging you again about BARF.....I bet you are all sick of my questions.  Thing is I don't want to stop if I can help it. This week I've noticed such a change in all three coats and they love eating it.

Can anyone offer any advice please? Thanks in advance.

[sarahp]

My advice would be stick to what works - ie no diawotsit    I know that may not be what you want to hear but the diet that you have been giving that does not cause problems is perfectly ok - so why mess with it 

Give them a couple of months to settle down then try slowly introducing new stuff - by that I mean only one new thing a week and give it for a morning meal on maybe 2 or 3 days so that if there are any bad effects you are already awake to sort it out 

Dill only has lamb and veg cos everything else gives him the runs - he has been on that diet since June and he is ok with that and so am I.  If thats all he can ever eat - so what??  He's fit and healthy and thats all thats important 

[Penel]

Thursday they had wings in the morning and sardines & egg for tea. Friday they had pork ribs in the morning and mince & veg for tea.

You're mixing it all up too much, too soon.  Go back to just the blocks of mince for a few days - with no diarrhoea.  Then try just giving one type of mince, and one type of raw meaty bone.  When dogs have eaten other food for ages it can take them a while to adjust to variety every day.  Mine would cope fine with what you say above, but I think it's just all too much for yours.  Imagine all your life you've eaten egg and chips, for every meal.  Then suddenly you get a curry for breakfast, a chinese for dinner, and the next morning a kebab.....

[ladylola]

Thursday they had wings in the morning and sardines & egg for tea. Friday they had pork ribs in the morning and mince & veg for tea.

You're mixing it all up too much, too soon.  Go back to just the blocks of mince for a few days - with no diarrhoea.  Then try just giving one type of mince, and one type of raw meaty bone.  When dogs have eaten other food for ages it can take them a while to adjust to variety every day.  Mine would cope fine with what you say above, but I think it's just all too much for yours.  Imagine all your life you've eaten egg and chips, for every meal.  Then suddenly you get a curry for breakfast, a chinese for dinner, and the next morning a kebab.....

Doesn't bear thinking about

[CraftySam]

Thursday they had wings in the morning and sardines & egg for tea. Friday they had pork ribs in the morning and mince & veg for tea.

You're mixing it all up too much, too soon.  Go back to just the blocks of mince for a few days - with no diarrhoea.  Then try just giving one type of mince, and one type of raw meaty bone.  When dogs have eaten other food for ages it can take them a while to adjust to variety every day.  Mine would cope fine with what you say above, but I think it's just all too much for yours.  Imagine all your life you've eaten egg and chips, for every meal.  Then suddenly you get a curry for breakfast, a chinese for dinner, and the next morning a kebab.....

Thanks Sarah and Penel 

Penel........now you put it like that. 

I had got it into my head that the blocks weren't as good as the actual fresh whole food which is why I was keen to move them off them. I don't have any evidence of that just my perception.
Having trialled something different each day without a problem I guessed it was ok to put it all together, so was thrown a bit when the diarrhea started again. Hadn't really thought of it in the context you put it, probably because what I had read said it was fine to do a quick swap onto BARF. But then again every dog is different so there can't be hard and fast rule.

I will try to be more patient. 

[Cob-Web]

Just a thought - are the sardines in oil?  Oil sometimes gives Molo the squits 

[CraftySam]

Yes they are Rachel.    The first time they had them in tomato and they seemed to have the runs then too. 

I'll keep an eye on that, thanks.

So far no more runs since Saturday. 

There has been a big change in all three coats but Sapphi's has had a dramatic change. She's always had dry skin and coat, although on the surface looked quite glossy but part it and it was very dry. It had been since a pup, nothing from the vet or any supplement or oil made any difference. Also from being around 6 months old she developed a curly back. So much so someone asked if she was a curly coat retriever & someone else if she was a cross.
For a couple of weeks her coat has looked much glossier but also it has two areas on each side of her body that has gone flat, straight, soft and glossy. And its spreading upwards so much so that there is only 5 inches of curls on the top of her back seperating the two smooth areas today. I'm really hoping that her coat will continue to change in this way. It will be a miracle if it does!