Starting BARF any tips??

[AnnieM]

Well, after 3 1/2 years of dabbling I have finally decided to give it a go full time.  I have just had my new freezer delivered and I have put in an order with natures menu.  Off to the farm shop/abbatoir (next to each other, but not sure which I need) tomorrow and stocked up on chicken wings from tesco tonight.  I have joined the britbarf forum, got my book, anything else I need to know?  What about veg, is it essential?  My lot do like veg, I haven't found anything they don't really like apart from celery, but then who can blame them. 

So any advice from all you seasoned BARFers out there is most welcome, I need all the help I can get. 

[Karma]

I saw you had joined the BritBarf group! 

Main tips - start slowly - don't give too much variety too quickly.  It doesn't matter if they don't have anything but chicken for the first week or so...

             - If "the book" is the Billingshurst one, be aware that he does seem to advocate a very high amount of bone... feel free to adjust ratios according to your dogs "output" 

             - veg really isn't essential - Honey has some occassionally, but it doesn't form a large part of her diet.
           
             - introduce offal last and very slowly - it's vital for B vitamins, but too much too soon can cause runny bums... 

Hope they (and you) enjoy it!

[AnnieM]

Does the offal have to be fed raw, or can it be cooked and used as training treats.  Jade absolutely hates the texture and will not touch it, even when I have lightly cooked liver she doesn't like it. I usually sort of slow cook it in the oven, then before it gets too hard cut it into bits and then put it back in and turn the oven off, it goes hard a bit like beef jerky.    Just not sure if it kills off all the goodness completely. 

[Karma]

It's better than nothing to cook it and feed it as treats...

Honey also hates the texture of liver - I liquidise it and mix it with minced tripe.... I started out with just a tablespoon in with her tripe and we are now at a 1/2 and 1/2 mix...    I blitz up a batch every couple of weeks, so I don't have to do it too often... 

[AnnieM]

Right I am starting to panic a bit now, I gave them all a chicken wing this morning and all 3 had gone in under 45 seconds, I did hear a little crunching, but then they were gone.    Is that normal?  I have given them before but just on very rare occasions as treats for their teeth, but they have sat and crunched them for 5 minutes or so, this is the 3rd day of having them and I was shocked how fast they disappeared.   

Thanks for that Karma BTW, I will start by cooking it for treats and then when I can summon the courage I wll try blitzing it.   

I am going to be feeding tripe for one meal a day and either another meaty meal, boney meal, or fishy meal for the other, does that sound balanced enough or not enough bone?

[Karma]

That sounds fine... tripe is like the multi-vitamin of raw food, so is great to feed! 
It will depend how many boney meals, and quite how boney they are, as to whether it's enough bone, but it should be obvious by looking at their poo!   
Honey tends to get a boney or fish meal in the morning and a meaty meal at night (we get lamb hearts from tesco as a good meat meal, or she gets tripe+liver or ox heart).  But a couple of times a week she will get beef chunks instead of bones....

And it is quite normal for chicken wings to disappear quickly... so don't panic!!
If they do eat something too quickly they tend to vomit it back up pretty quickly so they can have a second go at chewing it... 

[AnnieM]

Fantastic, thanks.  Nothing has come back yet, so obviously it wasn't too quick for them. 

What is the best boney meal to feed them?  I have got the obvious chicken wings and am feeding 2 each, lamb ribs not sure how many I would feed them?  What other boney meals are good, as I am off to the abattoir later to see what I can get.

I am using the AMP packs to start with as I am a bit nervous about making sure they get what they need. 

[Karma]

For boney meals Honey gets either Chicken Wings, lamb ribs/spine or pork ribs... she gets rabbit as and when I can get hold of it, and I have just found a source of chicken carcasses, so she'll get some of that too!  As far as how many, it depends how big they are!! Honey normally gets 2 chicken wings, and I aim for about 150g for other boney meals (give or take, depending on what I've got) - once you are used to it, you really don't need to weigh, as you have a decent idea as to the portion size.  I used to give her ox-tail, but she kept getting the larger peices stuck on the roof of her mouth, while she swallowed the smaller peices whole, so I gave up on that (likewise with Lamb neck bones). 

Chicken wings are definately her favourite and go in a few seconds... others get carried around a little bit before she decides that she will eat them after all!

[Helen]

don't use tripe too often if you have difficulty keeping weight off your dogs - a lot of Barf fed dogs get overweight easily and you will need to adjust their intake as per the individual dog's metabolism and needs 

[AnnieM]

Thanks guys, well the trip to the farm shop/abattoir was a total waste of time, the guy there raw feeds his own show dogs, and point blank refused to let me have any bones to feed to the dog!!!    He said only ever feed chicken carcass, wings and necks, as lamb bones are too soft and splinter too easily.     So now I am back to square one with that one and don't now know what to think.  He did however give me a bag of chicken wings and told me of a place to go get them in bulk. 

[Nicola]

Does he only feed his own dogs chicken then? That's hardly a balanced diet. My lot get lamb ribs or breast of lamb once a week or so and they're fine, the only thing to watch out for is that lamb is quite fatty and too much of it can make some dogs a bit squitty. I don't do a wholly barf diet though, mine get Arden Grange in the mornings and a bone, tripe or sardine meal in the evening, I mainly give the bones to keep their teeth clean.

[Joules]

I agree with Nic - just feeding chicken would not be a very good diet imo - the thing about BARF is that you need to feed a good mixture of stuff.    Coco gets chicken wings and carcasses, pork ribs, rabbit when I can get it, oxtail, raw fish like whole sardines or mackerel, tripe and most other types of mince (Prize Choice blocks) and offal like lambs hearts, pig or lamb liver, kidneys etc.  I have stopped giving her lamb ribs though as it tends to make her squitty - I think it is the lamb fat she can't tolerate.  She also gets pulped veg a few times a week and a raw egg once or twice a week too.  

[Helen]

you can get lambs breast from Morrisons but trim as much fat off as you can - also pork ribs are a really good meal as well 

[Karma]

Agree with the others.... just chicken is not a good BARF diet - chicken is actually the least "natural" meat of the lot for a dog to eat and while it is fine as part of a variety (or as a one off when a complete kibble is fed) it isn't good on its own...  

I tend to buy Chicken wings, lamb hearts and pork ribs from Tesco... I get ox heart and lamb bones/breast of lamb from Morrisons... and occassionally lamb bones from Sainsburies (they sometimes have a value pack of casserole lamb - I use neck pieces for us and ribs for Honey).  I get liver from wherever I am when we need it!  I've never had a problem with lamb splintering, nor have I heard of anyone else having such a problem... the only reason I avoid the lamb neck is when it is cut like ox-tail Honey has the same difficulties with it as she does with ox-tail (sticking on the roof of her mouth) and while it was always easy to dislodge I felt it wasn't worth the risk for her.  

I do find too many lamb meals cause Honey an upset - if she has lamb heart for one meal I can't give her lamb bones for the other....

[AnnieM]

No, he doesn't just feed them chicken, but for bones he said he would only ever feed chicken or rabbit.  I am going to try somewhere else, but for now mine will be getting the AMP packs anyway, I have ordered a mix of Tripe, Rabbit and Lamb, they will get a tin of pilchards in tomato sauce once a week, as well as raw egg etc and their chicken wings. 

He also said under no circumstances to feed pork as they carry some parasite that causes cysts.    I really thought that was quite old hat, but it makes you wonder as he works at the abattoir.   

He said that the best place for me to go was the knackers yard!!! As I don't want meat that is fit for human consumption just for dogs, sounds like a bit of a tw*t to me....