Starting BARF any tips??

[MollieMoo]

Sorry AnnieM for hijacking your thread, but can I ask another question?

Do any of you BARFers organise a weekly menu for your dogs so you know what you are doing every week or do you just do it day by day?  I was thinking of doing a weekly list what they are going to have every day so it would make it easier for me and I feel like I am on top of it all - or am I just being too controlling  

[AnnieM]

Not at all, it is all information and I was thinking this myself, but as I only have 3 flavours of AMP blocks and chicken wings then they aren't getting a huge choice anyway, they are having a tin of pilchards in tomato sauce tomorrow and I am going to try to find some ribs from morrisons now for a change of bones. I am just making sure I rotate the foods so they get variety. 

[MollieMoo]

I went down to our local butchers and he whipped out about 4 full lamb ribs and gave them to me for nothing, so then I popped down to the other butchers and they hadn't really got any ribs, and gave me a bag full of bits but when I got it home it was mainly fatty pieces, so I threw that in the bin    to the dogs disgust  .  So I have split the ribs up into approx 110 to 140kg portions and put them in the freezer.  So now I have AMP blocks, chicken wings and lamb ribs and have got to get my hands on a food processor so I can pulverise the veg.  I also got some sardines for the dogs from Asda which they thoroughly enjoyed

Also can anyone tell me where I can get Keepers Mix from, is it widely available, and is this recommended to give or it is better to give them kelp, alfalfa and the Omega's?

[Karma]

I started out with a bit of a weekly menu, and I think that can be useful while you find your feet and get used to the whole regime... it is useful to be able to double check the balance is right and confirm to yourself that they are getting a good variety...

Now I just play it by ear... but I'm much more comfortable with what she is eating and worry less about it... It did take me about 6 months to settle into this though - I started out following Billinghurst's model very closely, so was feeding pasta, cottage cheese, beans etc as well as raw meat... that's all gone out of the window now, as I've read more about other options, and it's far less stressful... I do make sure she gets a pot of liquidised liver once a week (one way or another) so I know she is getting that, and she gets her fish on dog training days so it doesn't matter if she has lots of biscuits for training (she won't eat raw fish, so I use the tinned stuff).  Once you get used to it it's very easy to think back over the last couple of days and make sure you are getting a fair balance... I know when you are starting out, you really won't believe me (and I do still have lists laying around where I was working out percentages of this and that to make sure it all looked ok), but it does get easier!!    

[AnnieM]

How's it going MollieMoo?

I gave them a pork rib each last night, couldn't get any lamb ribs,  I have been in a constant state of anxiety ever since, making sure they seem OK!    I know it will get easier, but it is really nerve wracking.  Have to say they are loving it though, I have never seen dishes empty so quickly.    Just need to get some veggies done for them and I would like to know if any of you supplement the dogs with anything other than the meat and veggies?

[MollieMoo]

It's going OK AnnieM, so far so good.

I have ordered some Pork ribs on my shopping and also some liver, so they haven't had either of those yet.  I will whiz the liver in the blender, but will have to work out how much they should get a week - unless someone can give me a guide to that?
I have borrowed my MIL's food processor so have pulped the veg, although first time I don't think I pulped it enough or put enough water in, so I did some more last night and it looked better, so that is all in the freezer ready for when I want it.
I bought some more chicken wings when I was at the butchers and when I got them out they were tiny, so have decided I am going to try Daisy on those, as she is a little pig and gulps everything down, so I will bash them with a rolling pin and then I will hold them for her as she tries to eat it which will hopefully slow her down a bit. 
I have been back to PAH this morning to have another look around as last time I was in a bit of a rush.  I had a look to see if they sold Keepers Mix, I didn't think they would, and they didn't so I will have to look elsewhere, although we are planning on going to the local game fair on the bank holiday weekend, so I might be able to pick some up there   So at the moment they aren't getting any additional supplements apart from Evening Primrose Oil.
I caught Mollie having a little scoot again this morning, so I have added some all bran to her food today.  I was giving her Pro Fibre I had from the vets, but I haven't been giving it to her since I have started her on raw, so maybe I shouldn't have stopped it, but I was hoping the raw feeding would counteract this, but I suppose it will take a little time to start seeing the benefits.
Oh I have also drawn up a weekly diet sheet, so I know what to give them daily, more to make my life easier

[Abby]

I buy my Keeper's Mix online from Dorwest http://www.dorwest.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KM

Don't use any other supplements, though Clive was on some vitamins for a while, that was for something else and only temporary.

I don't remember Clive taking long to sort himself out on Barf, a few days maybe? Tis too long ago now for my cranky memory to be reliable  All I do know is we used to go through a tonne of  Pro Fibre and various probiotic pastes, and now he needs nothing like that 

[MollieMoo]

I buy my Keeper's Mix online from Dorwest http://www.dorwest.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KM

Don't use any other supplements, though Clive was on some vitamins for a while, that was for something else and only temporary.

I don't remember Clive taking long to sort himself out on Barf, a few days maybe? Tis too long ago now for my cranky memory to be reliable  All I do know is we used to go through a tonne of  Pro Fibre and various probiotic pastes, and now he needs nothing like that 

That is really encouraging to know about Clive's anal glands, I just hope it will have the same effect for Mollie   Thanks also for the link to the dorwest website, I will order some from there I think  
I searched for Keepers Mix on COL and found some interesting comments about the dogs not liking the smell/taste and that one person put it into the veg mix to disguise it.  Do you have any problems with it Abby?

[Abby]

Not with Clive, he eats anything    Dylan definitely isn't keen on the taste but since I put it in with their mince & veg meals, once it's mixed in with a bit of water added, the tempting meaty aroma seems to overcome his objections   

If you do mix it in with veg, do it when you put it in the bowl, rather than when you do a batch for freezing, not sure what freexing would do to it.

[Karma]

I don't supplement with anything now.... 

[AnnieM]

Glad to hear it is all going well.    I am doing the veggie mix this afternoon.  We had the squits yesterday from one of them, but I think that may have been the beef mince.    EIther that or the pork rib from the night before, but they all seem ok in themselves.  Not sure I will give them ribs again for a while, not sure my nerves will survive in tact, so it's back to chicken wings for a while. 

I am going to get some bran for Jaz as she has very stinky anal glands from time to time,  I thought the chicken wings would help, but she seemed better with the bran.     Will get some of the keepers mix at the next show I go to.  I give them EPO every day anyway so will keep that up (Jaz gets Yumega instead).  I got them all weighed at the vets yesterday as they went for their boosters, Amber was 12.5kg, Jaz was 14.25kg and Jade was 13.95kg, so not what I expected really, I thought it would be Amber that was slightly overweight, but the vet said they looked fantastic and was very supportive of the BARF diet.    I think Jaz needs to lose a little though as they are all about the same size, Jade looks perfect to me.  So it is now a matter of balancing it right. 

[Karma]

Annie - definately stick to chicken wings for a while....

It really is important to take things slowly... it took us about 6 weeks before we were feeding a full range of foods to Honey, and even then we had pushed too quickly at one point and had an upset tum.

If they've had chicken, beef mince, fish and pork ribs in the first week or so, I'm not suprised they're a little runny!! 

With BARF it is balance over time that it important, so it doesn't matter if they are not getting the full variety at first!! 

[AnnieM]

Great thanks Karma, it is just worrying that you are not feeding them variety, but then I suppose what they are getting now is far more of a variety than the kibble. 

[Abby]

Don't worry about the variety thing. Like Karma says, so long as they get what they need over the period of a few weeks, it doesn't matter whether they get a bit of everything everyday (probably not a good idea anyway) or bits at different times.

My two never get veg everyday, just now and again when I remember to do some or get it out the freezer. Same with the different meats. Over time it balances up nicely.

[AnnieM]

If they've had chicken, beef mince, fish and pork ribs in the first week or so, I'm not suprised they're a little runny!! 

They have also had tripe, rabbit and lamb, oh and a raw egg.....   Will slow it down a bit with the variety. 
Not so sure I will repeat the raw egg too often, they had really bad wind all night.