is raw egg bad

[john51]

I don't want to take over this thread    but I think the topic is important and will post separately at some time. I have seen the site that you refer to and have not been impressed by the quality of argument. It is heavy on assertion and light on evidence. I do agree with you completely that there is a public health issue that relates to kibble-fed as well as raw-fed dogs, but it is wrong to imply that the risks are the same. Yes some kibble will be infected with unwanted bacteria from time to time, but if you look at studies, the incidence of salmonella is significantly higher in raw food than commercial kibble, therefore the risks will also be higher.

There is a Canadian Veterinary Journal paper that looks at this as well as the overall risks and benefits of raw feeding. "Raw food diets in companion animals: A critical review" Daniel P. Schlesinger and Daniel J. Joffe http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003575/

It refers to studies of bacterial infection in diets.

A recent study (15) analyzed 240 samples from 20 commercially prepared raw meat dog diets (beef, lamb, chicken, or turkey), 24 samples from 2 commercial dry dog foods, and 24 samples from 2 commercial canned foods...... Almost 6% of the raw food diets were positive for Salmonella, while none of the conventional diets were positive. Escherichia coli were isolated from all types of diets. It was found in almost 50% of the raw food diets but in only 8/24 (33%) dry and 2/24 (8%) canned diets.

In 1 small study of client-owned dogs, 80% of raw chicken diets were culture positive for Salmonella serovars, while none of the commercial dry foods were positive. Thirty percent of the stool samples of the raw chicken eaters were also positive; the commercial diet consumers’ stools were negative (16).

Another study looked at research dogs fed a frozen commercial raw food (17). The diet was tested for Salmonella prior to feeding and divided into contaminated and non-contaminated. The contaminated diet was fed to 16 dogs and the same non-contaminated diet was fed to 12 dogs. There were no clinical signs of disease in any of the dogs, but 7 of the dogs fed the contaminated diet shed Salmonella serovars in their stool for 1 to 7 d after consumption.

So yes, I do believe salmonella is an issue in dogs and it is a bigger issue in raw-fed dogs.

[Joules]

Well, you are, of course, entitled to your view.  That site is not the only source of information I have used but having had a raw fed dog for nearly 7 years now, I have seen no real evidence of dogs contracting salmonella.  Of course dogs can carry it which carries a risk to the humans they live with but dogs do not often get salmonella.  But then there is risk associated with the rest of the stuff that dogs eat when out - cat, horse, fox, bird, sheep, any other type of poo you care to mention, not to mention dead and rotting things.   Dogs usually eat this sort of stuff with no ill effects and if humans take sensible precautions, they do not run much risk of catching anything either  

Back to the original question John - are you really saying that it is dangerous for a dog to eat raw egg then? 

[john51]

No, I think the risk from eating raw egg is vanishingly small and I would not be worried if Lenny ate one. But then, I doubt if raw egg is significantly more nutritious than cooked egg so why not cook it? I agree that dogs can eat the most horrible things (and Lenny does) without much in the way of side-effects, so they can obviously cope with bacteria pretty well, but I was just pointing out that dogs do get serious illnesses from salmonella even if rarely. There's obviously a lot of experience on the site of people that have been feeding their dogs raw without any ill effects so the incidence is probably pretty low as you say.

I guess at the back of my mind is the overall risk/benefit balance of raw feeding but I get the feeling that raising that is more dangerous than questioning religion. 

[MIN]

sorry to have started this.
But must report, tummy seems to have settled down. no runny bums since about 6pm . Do not know the cause. She has not had what we call a gurgley gut, and all she has eaten today is breakfast (dry food) and that damed egg.

Anyway, for those who know about OH's habit for cleaning everything, floors have been disinfected, garden gravel given a dose of jf

[Joules]

There is no problem with cooking eggs if that is what you choose, but my dog is on a raw diet and so I prefer not to cook it - actually if an egg is scrambled or soft boiled it still contains bacteria hence pregnant women and chemo patients being told not to eat them.   Cooking does generally destroy some of the nutrients in food, plus dogs were designed to eat raw food, so I personally prefer that route.  I fully recognise that raw feeding is not for everyone and if others choose to feed cooked food, commercial dog food, whatever, then that is up to them and I am not going to tell them they are wrong  

sorry to have started this.
But must report, tummy seems to have settled down. no runny bums since about 6pm .

No problem starting the discussion at all - the risk of salmonella debate is something that comes up from time to time so always worth another outing.  

Glad to hear Gem's runny bottom has cleared up - hope you have an uneventful night.  

[Pearly]

Pearl has a raw egg every week with no ill effects but I have to confess to only giving her eggs that have been tested [Lion/date stamped] or are from birds that I know have been innoculated for salmonella [friends who have hens have theirs boosted every year].

Appreciate the concern that the question has raised but no side effects here other than her coat is lovely and as a family we have always given our dogs raw eggs......

Also had the argument over zoonotic illnesses with OH (GP) and the Vet......at the last count the Vet was in the lead with the statement of "dogs and cats catch more illnesses from humans - who harbour up to 16 million bacteria in our noses alone - than we can catch from our pets!!"  That was after he came home with a print out of all the illnesses the cats and dog could pass on to us......c 21 - albeit some were not very nice   funnily enough OH is very quiet on the subject these days........

[john51]

sorry to have started this.
But must report, tummy seems to have settled down. no runny bums since about 6pm . Do not know the cause. She has not had what we call a gurgley gut, and all she has eaten today is breakfast (dry food) and that damed egg.

I'm glad things are better and sorry if I disrupted your thread. I think it is extremely unlikely the egg was the problem unless it was infected, and even then you are unlikely to be sure.

There is no problem with cooking eggs if that is what you choose, but my dog is on a raw diet and so I prefer not to cook it - actually if an egg is scrambled or soft boiled it still contains bacteria hence pregnant women and chemo patients being told not to eat them.    Cooking does generally destroy some of the nutrients in food, plus dogs were designed to eat raw food, so I personally prefer that route.  I fully recognise that raw feeding is not for everyone and if others choose to feed cooked food, commercial dog food, whatever, then that is up to them and I am not going to tell them they are wrong 

Whoa there,  , please don't think I'm telling anyone they're wrong either. The comment about cooking eggs was my way of thinking about things, not a suggestion that you do so. People will decide for themselves how they want to feed their dogs but they should do so with an understanding of the implications of the choice they make. In general people don't look at what the evidence shows. The Canadian paper I referenced actually does a good job of defining categories of evidence from a scientific perspective.

[PennyB]

dogs are naturally more resistant to salmonella than humans - something to do with their shorter digestive tract and stronger digestive juices I think.

Ive heard this too re dogs and salmonella

I occasionally give raw eggs complete with shell

[DarceyTheDog]

Darcey gets whole raw eggs occasionally it's fun but messy! She plays with it and carries it round like a baby in her mouth then eventually cracks it and licks the insides out then eats the shell. Very good at firming up her poo well the shell is lol

[bluegirl]

Dogs produce an enzyme in their saliva called Lysozyme that destroys pathogenic bacteria such as salmonella and E. Coli, it also has another enzyme in the stomach which produces high concentrations of acidicity (mainly for digesting bones) but the two together in a healthy dog should mean that a dog is quite capable of eating raw eggs and raw meat and generally scavenging rubbish and remain healthy state.

Individually however, dogs may be more prone to certain undesirable effects of certain foods eg liver given in higher quantities, and raw eggs may fall into this category for a minority.

I give mine raw eggs up to 3 times per week.

[Helen]

Jarv's first raw egg a few years ago - he carried it around for about 10 minutes, gave it to me, I 'dropped' it and he ate it 

He's lived to tell the tale but he's not too keen on the texture of raw eggs (and he did have a slightly upset tummy so it's not something he has now )



Introducing some foods can cause upset tummies, especially in younger dogs.  As long as it's not carrying on for more than a day then I really wouldn't worry 

She's a dog - they eat fowl foul things   

[Bibby]

What a lovely photo! Handsome boy 

[MIN]

Alls well today. Must just have been a off day.
cheers 

[LynneB]

My dogs are fed raw and we do not have any digestive issues at all. Phoebe was given a raw egg 3 times a week when pregnant and she had 8 very healthy pups.
Since switching to the raw diet, my account at the vets has dropped by 30%