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Hello there!! I just thought I'd start a topic about feeding......not sure that I've started it in the right place but nevermind!
I have two blue's and they are both fed on the BARF (bones and raw food) diet and I wondered if there were any other barfers out there?! to share meal ideas with.........or indeed if there was anyone interested in the BARF diet then I can fill you in.......i carried on from what my dogs breeder was doing, she feeds all her dogs BARF, now i'm a reall advocate of it!
Lisa x :D
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I would like to know more about this. I use one of the well known 'complete' dried foods but keen to supplement with fresh food but not sure if I would then be giving unbalanced diet? :unsure:
Linda and Wallace
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Hi linda! BARF gives them everthing they need and it's so easy and cheaper!! Basically my dogs are fed on rotation meals like, scrambled egg and cottage cheese, toast and honey, pasta, rice, raw minced beef, raw minced chicken, raw minced tripe, lambe etc. They also have raw chicken wings which they love (the bones are small enough for them to break and digest), tinned tuna, mackeral, pilchards, they also have vegtable and fruit meals, porridge, stuff that you have in the cupboards so you never really run out of food!!
BARF makes their breathe fresher, the poos smaller and less stinky, because they are digest nearly everything, completes have e numbers and additives and god knows what in them!
My dogs breeder shows her dogs and has 10 cockers of her own, they are all fed BARF and thrive on it. I have two friends who changed from complete to BARF and noticed changes in their dogs like better coat condition and in the case of one who had a rescue dog who was very hyper and disliked other dogs a change in his behaviour for the better....I guess it's like a child with e numbers!!
You can add herbs to their food which helps to maintain fresh breathe and things like flax seed oil and kelp. They get everythingf they need and it is a very balanced diet if it is done properly, free from all the processed stuff that is added to complete foods.
There is a web site you might find interesting www.ukbarfclub.co.uk, it has articles and various other info from fellow BARFers!
Hope this helps!! Feel free to ask any more questions!! Lisa xx
I would like to know more about this. I use one of the well known 'complete' dried foods but keen to supplement with fresh food but not sure if I would then be giving unbalanced diet? :unsure:
Linda and Wallace
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Hello, I feed a raw natural diet and I'm afraid that doesn't include scrambled eggs and toast :lol: but hey if that works for you then fine !!!! :) mine don't have grain either - so no rice, pasta etc.
I've posted quite a lot on the subject here on COL, they are all probably bored to death reading it :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Hi there!, mine love their scrambled eggs and cottage cheese and toast and honey! It was on their food list when I picked them up from their breeder so i just carried on with it!! Have to say toast and honey is quite a treat though! They love it!! :P
I give my two chicken wings and their are bones in the natures menu food they have (frozen stuff) what other raw bones do your dogs have? I'd like to add another kind to their diet
Thanks Lisa xxxxxxx
Hello, I feed a raw natural diet and I'm afraid that doesn't include scrambled eggs and toast :lol: but hey if that works for you then fine !!!! :) mine don't have grain either - so no rice, pasta etc.
I've posted quite a lot on the subject here on COL, they are all probably bored to death reading it :lol: :lol: :lol:
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.... completes have e numbers and additives and god knows what in them!
Actually, not all of them do...but a lot of supermarket shelf brands do ;)
I don't feed BARF because at present I don't have the storage/time/commitment avaiable to do it justice <_< . Having browsed the UK BARF Club (http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/) website extensively, I believe in avoiding cereal too - but at the moment I'm just not able to guarantee the several times a week trip to the greengrocer for veggies to puree, and our freezer just would not cope with the meat needed on top of the usually family meals :lol:
Instead, I feed a premium complete food - with no additives or cereal, and supplement Molo's diet with ham bones, chicken wings, raw carrots and broccoli (he pinches from the guineas, so I give him his own now :rolleyes: ) I also use "natural" treats - dried pigs and cows ears, pig snouts, dried buffalo meat, home dried liver and of course, pizzles :ph34r: I reduce the amount of complete food he gets each day to reflect the treats he is given - but it gives me the confidence that he is getting a complete, balanced diet :)
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Maybe I was genralising by saying completes have e numbers and god knows what in them, you are right not all do....I guess it just comes down to personal preferance at the end of the day, I know my dogs would turn their noses up if i gave them complete (my mum tried to once and they weren't having any of it, and they usually always wolf their food down!!) I guess you have to do what is best for you and your dogs.
I was avoiding cereal but my vet felt that my dogs needed the extra substance as they both eat loads but don't put weight on and they needed a bit if extra which he said the cereal would give them and it has worked.
Lisa xx
.... completes have e numbers and additives and god knows what in them!
Actually, not all of them do...but a lot of supermarket shelf brands do ;)
I don't feed BARF because at present I don't have the storage/time/commitment avaiable to do it justice <_< . Having browsed the UK BARF Club (http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/) website extensively, I believe in avoiding cereal too - but at the moment I'm just not able to guarantee the several times a week trip to the greengrocer for veggies to puree, and our freezer just would not cope with the meat needed on top of the usually family meals :lol:
Instead, I feed a premium complete food - with no additives or cereal, and supplement Molo's diet with ham bones, chicken wings, raw carrots and broccoli (he pinches from the guineas, so I give him his own now :rolleyes: ) I also use "natural" treats - dried pigs and cows ears, pig snouts, dried buffalo meat, home dried liver and of course, pizzles :ph34r: I reduce the amount of complete food he gets each day to reflect the treats he is given - but it gives me the confidence that he is getting a complete, balanced diet :)
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I feed a pre-made version of the BARF diet that comes in patties (http://www.healthy-paws.ca/). The raw bones are ground up though so he doesn't get to chew his meals, but t's sooooo much easier then preparing it myself....that will be the ultimate goal! Bailey was quite a picky little eater before I changed his diet and had the stinkiest poo ever! :P
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I fed a raw natural diet to my dog, but it isn't BARF.
She has been fed this way since 8 wks old and she is now 3yrs. I am very happy with the results. :D
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Three great foods are naturdiet (wet) James Wellbeloved, dry, and Burns, dry. All are free from nasty additives and are good balanced foods. I add bran to naturediet to help with anal glands too.
There are good foods in both - BARF may be ok if you can afford the time and money, but not everyone can or wants to - I'm not a fan of dogs and bones, I work in a vets.
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Three great foods are naturdiet (wet) James Wellbeloved, dry, and Burns, dry. All are free from nasty additives and are good balanced foods. I add bran to naturediet to help with anal glands too.
There are good foods in both - BARF may be ok if you can afford the time and money, but not everyone can or wants to - I'm not a fan of dogs and bones, I work in a vets.
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BARF doesn't take that much time to be honest, and I don't find it to expensive either, infact my friend who has 4 cockers has nearly halved her food bill since she started feeding BARF, but at the end of the day we all do what we see is best for us and our dogs.
Lisa x
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I fed a raw natural diet to my dog, but it isn't BARF.
She has been fed this way since 8 wks old and she is now 3yrs. I am very happy with the results. :D
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Your signiture quote is great and too true!! My dogs have been fed BARF since they were weaned and I to am very happy with the results. I think dogs tell us what they like and don't like.......my too are chasing round the lounge like mad at the mo I think they trying to attract my attention!!!!
Lisa x
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I feed a pre-made version of the BARF diet that comes in patties (http://www.healthy-paws.ca/). The raw bones are ground up though so he doesn't get to chew his meals, but t's sooooo much easier then preparing it myself....that will be the ultimate goal! Bailey was quite a picky little eater before I changed his diet and had the stinkiest poo ever! :P
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Thanks that sounds interesting I will take a look at the website and pass it on to my BARFER friends!! Lisa xx
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I feed a BARF diet - having got lots of info from Penel ;) on another forum :D :D
To be honest Daisy chose it herself - she hates biscuits of any sort - even human :blink: :blink: My mom did discover that she would eat rich tea - but you have to dunk it first :ph34r: :ph34r:
So now she has a better diet than me and my OH!!! We went to a farm shop today and bought organic chicken wings and lamb chops - the lady in the shop thought I was mad when I said it was for the dog :rolleyes: She asked Chris if he had the Pedigree Chum :lol: :lol:
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I tried with the raw bones but both my dogs were passing blood with their poo(sorry if you're eating) when I'd given them neck of lamb. They seem fine with raw chicken wings. I'll still give them but have gone back to Butcher's choice and Autarky, I can't stand the worry.
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Three great foods are naturdiet (wet) James Wellbeloved, dry, and Burns, dry. All are free from nasty additives and are good balanced foods.
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Like Shona our 2 dogs are fed on Naturediet & JWB & they seem to do well on it. :)
I think you just have to find a method that suits your own animals. ;)
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I fed a raw natural diet to my dog, but it isn't BARF.
She has been fed this way since 8 wks old and she is now 3yrs. I am very happy with the results. :D
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Your signiture quote is great and too true!! My dogs have been fed BARF since they were weaned and I to am very happy with the results. I think dogs tell us what they like and don't like.......my too are chasing round the lounge like mad at the mo I think they trying to attract my attention!!!!
Lisa x
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Unfortunately a few dogs at work recently have *told* us they don't like bones, so I may well be biased. ;)
Edited to add - how can it be cheaper? I pay £1.00 a day for my boys, with biscuits extra-unless someone gives you food, how does that work
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I feed a BARF diet - having got lots of info from Penel ;) on another forum :D :D
To be honest Daisy chose it herself - she hates biscuits of any sort - even human :blink: :blink: My mom did discover that she would eat rich tea - but you have to dunk it first :ph34r: :ph34r:
So now she has a better diet than me and my OH!!! We went to a farm shop today and bought organic chicken wings and lamb chops - the lady in the shop thought I was mad when I said it was for the dog :rolleyes: She asked Chris if he had the Pedigree Chum :lol: :lol:
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That made me laugh, Lee often says to me that dogs eat better than him!! I have never tried giving them lamb chops.....might give it a whirl!!!! Thanks!! This site is fab!! lisa xxxx
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I fed a raw natural diet to my dog, but it isn't BARF.
She has been fed this way since 8 wks old and she is now 3yrs. I am very happy with the results. :D
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Your signiture quote is great and too true!! My dogs have been fed BARF since they were weaned and I to am very happy with the results. I think dogs tell us what they like and don't like.......my too are chasing round the lounge like mad at the mo I think they trying to attract my attention!!!!
Lisa x
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Unfortunately a few dogs at work recently have *told* us they don't like bones, so I may well be biased. ;)
Edited to add - how can it be cheaper? I pay £1.00 a day for my boys, with biscuits extra-unless someone gives you food, how does that work
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Because things like for example asda smart price pasta cost 19 p each and with 4 dogs she uses 2 of them a day so thats 38p for breakfast and mince for dinner she uses half a bag which when you buy in bulk works out @ £1 a bag so her total food bill for a day by that rational is 88p treats are extra but we have a great reciepe for healthy treats made with molasess that the dogs luuuurrrrve!
I can see that if you've seen dogs having problems with bones why you'd be dubious, it's fair enough, we are all entitled to our opionins no one is right or wrong!! :D :D :D :D :D
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Three great foods are naturdiet (wet) James Wellbeloved, dry, and Burns, dry. All are free from nasty additives and are good balanced foods.
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Like Shona our 2 dogs are fed on Naturediet & JWB & they seem to do well on it. :)
I think you just have to find a method that suits your own animals. ;)
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I totally agre!!!! We all try to do what we see best for our animals, and to be honest they tell us what they do and don't like........like Milo wouldn't touch minced chicken for love nor money, but he wolves everything else down like he's never going to be fed again!!!!
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I tried with the raw bones but both my dogs were passing blood with their poo(sorry if you're eating) when I'd given them neck of lamb. They seem fine with raw chicken wings. I'll still give them but have gone back to Butcher's choice and Autarky, I can't stand the worry.
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Which is totally understandable Glynis I guess we all work to our personal exerperiences and what works for some doesn't work for others........to be honest have never given them neck of lamb so not sure how there poos'd be either! If it wasn't on the list from their breeder i havn't tried it!! Lisa xx
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mine are also fed raw. I always aviod discussing diet in to much detail, everyone has different ideas,do whats right for you and yours.
I give my two chicken wings and their are bones in the natures menu food they have (frozen stuff) what other raw bones do your dogs have? I'd like to add another kind to their diet
Mine have what evers cheapest at the butchers! All parts of chicken,turkey necks, ribs, chops, trotters...
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mine are also fed raw. I always aviod discussing diet in to much detail, everyone has different ideas,do whats right for you and yours.
I give my two chicken wings and their are bones in the natures menu food they have (frozen stuff) what other raw bones do your dogs have? I'd like to add another kind to their diet
Mine have what evers cheapest at the butchers! All parts of chicken,turkey necks, ribs, chops, trotters...
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Beginning to wish i hadn't statred the great food debate!! It seems as controversal as the great docking debate! Lisa xx
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You have to read the packaging of any commercial processed foods very carefully - "No added x,y,z," does not mean that x,y,z, are not in that particular food, it means that the company did not add it themselves. Ie: it was possibly already in the source ingredient.... sneaky but true unfortunately.
Quote here directly from the JWB site http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk/ (http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk/) " Plus our foods have no added colours, no added flavours and no added preservatives - all of which are believed to contribute to hyperactive behaviour in dogs." see what I mean ...
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Beginning to wish i hadn't statred the great food debate!! It seems as controversal as the great docking debate! Lisa xx
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Don't worry - as you say it's all about putting out the information then it's up to us all to make a personal decision as to what we feel is best for our dogs and as Rachel says, fits in with our own lifestyles. Personally I doubt I'd ever feed raw, I'm far too squeamish :ph34r: - I tried twice to give Jimmy chicken wings and was so relieved that he appearred to be as revolted by eating raw meat as I was. :D I daresay there would be ways to encourage him but have to confess that even just handling raw chicken made me feel like heaving. :ph34r: :D
However... I would like to do my best by my dogs with regards to "commercial" dog foods - I've tried Naturediet, Burns and Nutro and all of them seem to have an adverse effect on one or both of my dogs. They both seem fine on JWB but it seems to me to produce too much "waste", which is also occassionally runny. I'm thinking of trying Arden Grange but notice that the protein level is really high compared to other foods (about 25%) and am sure I read that high protein levels are linked with hip problems. :unsure:
Another query for you food experts I have is re bran - I put a bit of this in the dogs' food to help with anal gland problems they both have ( not that it seems to help :rolleyes: ) , yet I understand that cereals are not supposed to be good for dogs. So much advice seems to be conflicting.
So, high protein levels good or bad ? Bran, good or bad ?
(Sorry if this is off topic, though I guess it's kind of related to the reasons people choose to raw feed.)
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Colin, Arden grange has a protein content of around 25% compared to JWB of 21% but then you have to compare that to how much they get fed - its smaller portions of the Arden grange. I changed Alfie over to it about August time and theres been a marked improvement on his coat (he was on Burns previously) and he actually eats it. I did have him on JWB before Burns and his out put was dreadful, often runny and lots of it. Whilst he still goes more often then he did on Burns, its always firm
I also have doubts about adding Bran so I do give chicken wings and lamb ribs. Alfie is good and knows to take them into the garden to eat so I dont have to hear the crunch (although I do keep an eye just in case) If you are that squimish have you thought about asking a friendly butcher to put some chicken through a mincer for you - bones included? Or a processor should do the job.Then feed this raw once a week or so. Nature diet has a high ground bone content which is why they dont advise adding any biscuit mix to it
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I think the important thing to remember is that WE are responsible for providing our dogs with a balanced, healthy diet - and if bran/ground bone/egg shells provides the dietry substance that would more "naturally" be gained from gnawing bones - then why not? :)
I do wonder how far evolution/selection has taken the domestic dog away from their origional, wild diet :unsure: The fact that many dogs react badly to raw meat and bones suggests that they are a long way from their wild cousins when it coms to diet and digestion......wild canines which had these kinds of intolerances would die before reproducing so any genetic predisposition/weakness of this kind would be quickly eliminated from the gene pool.
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I do use cereal and I do add bran and wheatgerm to my dogs dinner and I have been shot down in the past for sticking to my beliefs that cereals are good when this is not what other raw feeders believe.
I have found a diet that my dog thoroughly enjoys. She doesn't have any anal gland problems but I couldn't be sure if that is through the extra roughage in her diet of just the whole raw instead of cooked/ commercial food. ( my last cocker had blocked anal gland problems throughout her life and she was fed a mixture or homecooked and commercial dog food.)
Pennys faeces is also completely different to my other dogs in that it is virtually odourless and there is definately less of it.
The diet you feed your dog is a personal choice as others have said, I could never have seen myself feeding raw before Penny, but circumstances made me consider all options, but whatever product we have all chosen will be because we believe it is the best choice for our dog.
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but whatever product we have all chosen will be because we believe it is the best choice for our dog.
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Here, Here!!!! Lisa xx
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if bran/ground bone/egg shells provides the dietry substance that would more "naturally" be gained from gnawing bones - then why not? :)
I do wonder how far evolution/selection has taken the domestic dog away from their origional, wild diet :unsure: The fact that many dogs react badly to raw meat and bones suggests that they are a long way from their wild cousins when it coms to diet and digestion......wild canines which had these kinds of intolerances would die before reproducing so any genetic predisposition/weakness of this kind would be quickly eliminated from the gene pool.
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The thing is Rachel, gnawing raw bones is not the same as eating a whole prey animal, which is what a wild dog would do. The fur, brain, eyes, everything - would make a perfectly balanced diet: ie a whole rabbit.
I have to say I do not know of *many* dogs that have reacted badly to a raw diet - and perhaps if they have it is because their owners have not introduced it properly, or also because their insides are so totally unaccustomed to eating it that they have reacted badly initially - and sometimes a little patience is needed.
I have said before - I totally completely understand people not wanting to feed raw, I was exactly the same 6 years ago and was very sure that I would never ever feed raw - but was sort of forced into it by a homeopathic vet when Saffy was very ill.
I've said before and will say it again, dogs are not cereal eaters - they do not have flat molars for grinding cereal (like we do) - all their teeth are sharp and pointy for ripping and tearing meat and breaking bones - anyone who's been bitten by a dog knows how strong their jaws are !!!!! I do agree that there might be a miniscule amount of stomach content eaten when a whole animal is consumed but this would more likely contain grasses than cereals - unless the bunny lived in a wheat field :)
Tilly used to have no end of anal gland problems til she was switched to raw at 2 years old - she used to have to have them emptied every 8 weeks - 5 years later, she has not had a problem since.
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Colin, Arden grange has a protein content of around 25% compared to JWB of 21% but then you have to compare that to how much they get fed - its smaller portions of the Arden grange. I changed Alfie over to it about August time and theres been a marked improvement on his coat (he was on Burns previously) and he actually eats it. I did have him on JWB before Burns and his out put was dreadful, often runny and lots of it. Whilst he still goes more often then he did on Burns, its always firm
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Thanks for explaining that Caroline. Arden Grange does seem to come highly recommended by everyone, so hopefully it will turn out to be suitable for both Jimmy and Misty ; it's been ridiculous the amount of chopping and changing I've had to do recently. <_<
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I wouldn't consider Barf either i'm afraid, I won't even give Indie raw chicken wings :D
Colin, the Arden Grange has been fantastic for Indie, she now eats all her dinner, is looking healthy, shiney coat etc :D I haven't noticed an adverse effect of the protein amount, but then she was swapped from Bakers, so I guess I wouldn't notice anyway :rolleyes:
Just a thought, has there ever been any reports done into dogs on barf and dogs on kibble, i.e. are there any statistics to back up the suggestion that raw feeding has health benefits over kibble? :)
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The short answer is no.
I don't need studies to show me how much better a raw natural diet is, I can see the difference in my dogs - and other dogs that are raw fed. In fact I could probably spot the difference in a line up of 10 dogs which ones were raw fed.
Food studies are done by multi million pound companies who make kibble - suppliers of raw meat cannot compete with that sort of thing. What is there to prove anyway - raw meat doesn't have any additives - its that simple.
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Actually, meat produced these days has a lot more fat than it used to, sometimes as much as 70% from what I've read. Also, many dogs have dietary and or health issues which preclude this BARF, like Hamish for instance.
I don't get that part of the BARF philosophy to be honest - the only chicken wings round here are Tesco value range, probably pumped full of antibiotics and hormones anyway, certainly choosing to feed kibble isn't because of multi million pound companies research - very few people who do feed kibble here feed the ones full of additives!
I think that's what pisses me off about the whole BARF thing, there's a real smug thing about it, and it doesn't help. It's really counterproductive to say to people that they are doing the wrong thing for their pet, especially when they have put as much thought in it as most have, but it's assumed they haven't. It is possible to just diasgree with the method, after having looked at it.
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Actually, meat produced these days has a lot more fat than it used to, sometimes as much as 70% from what I've read. Also, many dogs have dietary issues which preclude this BARF, like Hamish for instance.
I don't get that part of the BARF philosophy to be honest - the onlt chicken wings round here are Tesco value range, probably pumped full of antibiotics and hormones anyway, certainly choosing to feed kibble isn't because of multi million pound companies research - very few people who do feed kibble here feed the ones full of additives!
I think that's what pisses me off about the whole BARF thing, there's a real smug thing about it, and it doens't help. It's really counterproductive to say to people that they are doing the wrong thing for their pet, especially when they have put as much thought in it as most have, but it's assumed they haven't.
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Shona! I wasn't trying to be smug about the BARF thing by starting the topic I was just interested to know how many people out there did it....in my past posts I have also said that we all do what is best for our dogs.......I wish I hadn't started it if its going to upset people....sorry! :)
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harry has a BARF diet - my mum buys in bulk so i get it cheaper, including chicken wings and a variety of beef, tripe, chicken, and lamb mince. the last time i totted it up Harry's food cost me roughly £20 for 6 weeks (50p per day), including biscuit and veg etc. we tried him on a complete food when we got him and he gave up pretty quickly, so i tried him on raw and have never gone back.
this is the yummiest (as far as harry is concerned) easiest and cheapest way to feed our pet.
i attribute he very well conditoned coat (when asked) to his diet but to be fair he could have that condition coat being fed on a well balanced dried food - I have just never tried :)
but raw tripe really isnt the most appealing thing in the mornings!! :ph34r:
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but raw tripe really isnt the most appealing thing in the mornings!! :ph34r:
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....very true!!!!! and Im a veggy so that makes it doubley hard!! :( yuck!!!!
Still my dogs luuuuurrrrve it!! and they also like to lick my face after they've eaten it NICE!!!!
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Nell is fed on Burns and nature Diet, she also has pilchards sardines and tripe.
Her coat is glossy, her eyes are sparkling, and is also very trim for a five year old Lab, our vet was very impressed with her, and passed comment on how healthy she looked :D I think it's all down to individual choice, what suits one dog will not always suit another ;)
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Shona! I wasn't trying to be smug about the BARF thing by starting the topic I was just interested to know how many people out there did it....in my past posts I have also said that we all do what is best for our dogs.......I wish I hadn't started it if its going to upset people....sorry! :)
Not at all, I know, it's more the *I could pick out of a line up of ten dogs* comments, and the inference therefore it's superior. That wasn't directed at you personally, sorry.
I absolutely agree everyone has different opinions, I just don't like the debating method of putting down someon else's choices - I have my own very strong reasons why I wouldn't consider it, but wouldn't really share them in any great detail as it would p people off, and be seen as scare tactics.
My dogs are both thriving, glossy coats, full of energy too :)
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Actually, meat produced these days has a lot more fat than it used to, sometimes as much as 70% from what I've read........- the only chicken wings round here are Tesco value range, probably pumped full of antibiotics and hormones anyway.......
I agree with this Shona - if I were to feed raw meat to Molo (or any dog) as his main diet then I would only feed organic meat - the levels of hormones and antibiotics that are in supermarket/butchers meat would concentrate and build up in his body - not all of them are processed and excreted; some build up a toxins <_< . I don't see the point in feeding cheap-cuts of meat and budget brands when the quality of product in his kibble is better ;)
I am unable to source these products as conveniently (ie not a ferry ride away) and cost effectively as the same quality products in a complete kibble - and even THAT isn't delivered to my home, and there are limited suppliers :rolleyes: As far as I am concerned; BARF or RAW would not be better for Molo than his current diet UNLESS I could source all the organic ingredients he gets at the moment :) :)
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The short answer is no.
I don't need studies to show me how much better a raw natural diet is, I can see the difference in my dogs - and other dogs that are raw fed. In fact I could probably spot the difference in a line up of 10 dogs which ones were raw fed.
Food studies are done by multi million pound companies who make kibble - suppliers of raw meat cannot compete with that sort of thing. What is there to prove anyway - raw meat doesn't have any additives - its that simple.
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I only asked out of interest Penel I wasn't trying to be funny :( I was interested thats all :rolleyes: Like i'm sure others may have been :) Gawd whats wrong with people on here lately :rolleyes: I'm going back to my couldron, where its safe :P
You may well not need studies as your mind is made up, but other people browsing this forum do not know all the ins and outs like me, which is why I asked :blink:
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Just changing the subject slightley. What brands of mixer biscuit do you use? I am not to happy with the current brand I am using I have noticed that my dogs teeth become dirty very quickly. Which before I used a mixer didn't happen?
I did try the barf diet and have done a lot of research into it and have come to the conclusion that it does make sense but just couldn't handle the bone thing. I used to give them chicken wings but daren't let go of it in case they bolted it and it got stuck!!!
However I do use Nature diet, raw tripe, lamb, natures menu etc which I feel is the closest I will get to BARF for the time being.
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You may well not need studies as your mind is made up, but other people browsing this forum do not know all the ins and outs like me, which is why I asked :blink:
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That's kind of why I started they topic, because 1 I wanted to see who else fed BARF and 2 I thought it'd be useful to people who wanted info.........aaarrrrrghgh.........next time i'll choose a less political topic.......can't stand the guilt!!........xx :)
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Not at all, I know, it's more the *I could pick out of a line up of ten dogs* comments, and the inference therefore it's superior. That wasn't directed at you personally, sorry.
Phew!!! I've only been using the forum for a few days I didn't want to have started WW3!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D Didn't want you all talking behind my back saying who let that bloody silkstocking on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like it here didn't want to have to leave so soon! Now I feel better! Thanks!! :D Lisa and my muttleys!!
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:D Aww Silk (sorry can't remember your real name :ph34r: ) don't worry atall, you started a really interesting topic, we all have our own views and have made our decisions on what we think and what is best for our situations and pet! Theres no right or wrong way and I can't understand why this thread has got like this :(
I would be really interested to hear about case studies as that would help me and others make informed decisions where there is "hard evidence" to support a particular method and not make a decsion based on someone elses choice :D
Don't feel bad :) x
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Really don't worry about it.
Everyone has their opinion, I just think we have to be careful how some things are worded, and to ty and use quote marks to identify excatly what we are reffering too.
Just because someone has a difference of view points, doesn't mean anyone elses is wrong.
I like to read different view points, and some of the advise and help is invaluable.
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:D Aww Silk (sorry can't remember your real name :ph34r: ) don't worry atall, you started a really interesting topic, we all have our own views and have made our decisions on what we think and what is best for our situations and pet! Theres no right or wrong way and I can't understand why this thread has got like this :(
I would be really interested to hear about case studies as that would help me and others make informed decisions where there is "hard evidence" to support a particular method and not make a decsion based on someone elses choice :D
Don't feel bad :) x
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Thanks Emma!!! God the turmoil!!!! If you are interested check out the BARF website........there are some interesting articles.......for me I can only go on personal experience....like we all do thats why I BARF!!.......plus I'd do anything to keep my pooches happy and it does!!...my names Lisa...not sure why i used Nancy's KC name it makes me sound a bit..............ha ha!!!!!!!
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Thanks Emma!!! God the turmoil!!!! If you are interested check out the BARF website........there are some interesting articles.......for me I can only go on personal experience....like we all do thats why I BARF!!.......plus I'd do anything to keep my pooches happy and it does!!...my names Lisa...not sure why i used Nancy's KC name it makes me sound a bit..............ha ha!!!!!!!
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Thanks Lisa :D I did wonder where your name came from :lol: I will have a look at the site, although I really don't think I could ever go down the barf route, I am interested in the subject as a whole :)
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I feed Indie raw chicken wings, raw mince, tna and pilchars to Indie with a complete kibble once a week and the vet couldn't believe how good the condition of his coat and teeth, this was before I told him what we feed Indie. he's very healthy and he loves his raw diet, we tried so many different brands of complete foods, but Indie wouldn't touch any of them. He loves his chicken wings and bolts them down.
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I wasn't being smug - I was being honest. Perhaps you got the wrong end of the stick. I am honestly telling you that before I fed this way, I had exactly the same attitude as you do - why can't you accept that - without labelling me as smug. If you haven't fed this way - you can't actually compare the two ways of feeding. I have fed 5 dogs on a raw diet now, and there is a huge difference between the ones I kibble fed (Burns) and now.
I fed Saffy on BARF for a year when she had SLE which is a polysystemic auto immune disease - she had polyarthritis, glomerulonephritis, vasculitis - the list was long. All the vets who treated her were amazed she survived as long as she did - certainly the glomerulonephritis would have killed her had she not been fed on an organic chemical free diet. I know lots of people on my Auto immune group who feed raw including dogs who have IMTP, AIHA and other AI diseases, with excellent results - one dog in particular springs to mind - he had masticatory myositis - chewing raw bones re-built all the muscle he had lost around his skull.
What meats do you all think go into kibble ? :unsure:
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I know I started this topic but it was never my intention to start any arguments, I am new to all this and didn't realise what a controversal issue it was (niave of me probably). I apologise if I offended anyone Lisa xxxxx
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You haven't offended anyone, don't worry :)
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For those of you that do BARF - do you all use organic meat/bones??
I have been unable to source an organic butcher who doesn't charge the earth or who is close enough to do a run every two or three weeks.
So I use meat bought from Tesco's. Not the value range - the normal stuff. I'm not sure if I read on this thread - or another - that non-organic meat is not good for dogs - the toxins build up. <_<
So...........my question is - should I continue what I'm doing or alter it?? The ideal would be to find an organic source, but if I cant do the ideal is my next best good enough??? :huh: :huh:
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Hi Sarah,
I am lucky enough to know a kind organic butcher that gives me a huge bag of chicken carcasses, lamb ribs, and pork bones every week - so my dogs are mainly fed on organic raw meaty bones. However the tripe I get is from AMP so that isn't organic.
I think organic is ideal - same as it is with us humans - but if you can't get organic, then the pet meats you can buy frozen are the next option. They may well have "chemicals" in them if the animals have not been organically raised, but at least they don't have colourings, preservatives, and other such additives in them. :)
Have you asked on Britbarf if anyone knows of an organic supplier near to you ?
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Doh!!! Never thought of that :blink: :blink:
Will be right back ;)
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They may well have "chemicals" in them if the animals have not been organically raised, but at least they don't have colourings, preservatives, and other such additives in them. :)
Penel - do you know if frozen pet-meat is antibiotic free? I'm not sure whether the source is the same as human meat (which does contain antibio's) - and this is one of the things I really want to avoid - they are dreadful for the environment and probably not much good for healthy dogs, either <_<
As I said - my priority is an organic, additive free diet that he enjoys - at the moment, his complete kibble is the only way I can acheive this :)
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I know I started this topic but it was never my intention to start any arguments, I am new to all this and didn't realise what a controversal issue it was (niave of me probably). I apologise if I offended anyone Lisa xxxxx
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Aww Lisa, you don't need to apologise, as you said in your original post on this thread, one of the main reasons you posted was to swap recipe idea's which is a good idea, and Penel is great with this.
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Food studies are done by multi million pound companies who make kibble - suppliers of raw meat cannot compete with that sort of thing. What is there to prove anyway - raw meat doesn't have any additives - its that simple.
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Sounds just like the washable nappy/ disposable nappy debate! Those good old multi million pound companies.
No, I'm not starting another thread!
After using disposables on a holiday, I remember my daughter being relieved to get home so she could wear a comfy nappy. I wonder if our poochies feel like that when we've been away and travelled light.
Moltex Oko and Tushies are the JWB and Burns of the nappy world. Convenience without the additives. Not that I'm a nappy geek or anything. My son was partial to raw silk nappy liners though!
Ahh, so this could be a new thread. How many Barfers have or would use washable REAL nappies on their babies? Only joking.
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I don't see the point in feeding cheap-cuts of meat and budget brands when the quality of product in his kibble is better
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I too have thought of this, as I only eat organic meat but cannot afford this for Willow.
When you say the quality in the kibble is better, is this in all kibble or do you feed organic kibble?
I can feel kibble geek coming on just like nappy geek!
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Hi Sarah,
I am lucky enough to know a kind organic butcher that gives me a huge bag of chicken carcasses, lamb ribs, and pork bones every week - so my dogs are mainly fed on organic raw meaty bones. However the tripe I get is from AMP so that isn't organic.
I think organic is ideal - same as it is with us humans - but if you can't get organic, then the pet meats you can buy frozen are the next option. They may well have "chemicals" in them if the animals have not been organically raised, but at least they don't have colourings, preservatives, and other such additives in them. :)
Have you asked on Britbarf if anyone knows of an organic supplier near to you ?
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But Burns doesn't have chemicals or coulors in it either, neither does naturediet.
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I wasn't being smug - I was being honest. Perhaps you got the wrong end of the stick. I am honestly telling you that before I fed this way, I had exactly the same attitude as you do - why can't you accept that - without labelling me as smug. If you haven't fed this way - you can't actually compare the two ways of feeding. I have fed 5 dogs on a raw diet now, and there is a huge difference between the ones I kibble fed (Burns) and now.
I fed Saffy on BARF for a year when she had SLE which is a polysystemic auto immune disease - she had polyarthritis, glomerulonephritis, vasculitis - the list was long. All the vets who treated her were amazed she survived as long as she did - certainly the glomerulonephritis would have killed her had she not been fed on an organic chemical free diet. I know lots of people on my Auto immune group who feed raw including dogs who have IMTP, AIHA and other AI diseases, with excellent results - one dog in particular springs to mind - he had masticatory myositis - chewing raw bones re-built all the muscle he had lost around his skull.
What meats do you all think go into kibble ? :unsure:
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I don't have to have taken heroin to know I don't want to either. I have looked at the diet, taken extensvie advice, and feel strongly it's not something I ewant to do. Why can't you accept that instead of insisting that people who don't BARF just haven't been converted yet? It's possible that they just don't agree.
This website is one of the millions that point out the dangers, dangers that I have unfortunately seen at work. My ogs don't get sticks, so they don't get bones that they can swallow either.
http://secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_...estimonies.html (http://secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/testimonies.html)
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And this quote from the same site says it really well for me..
*Advocates of a raw meat/bone diet make a giant leap from a low quality kibble to raw, skipping over a more common sense solution. A home-made diet with cooked meat. Any initial results they might see are a result of an "absence" of one or more ingredients of the kibble - NOT the "presence" of raw meat. I believe there is a balance between raw and kibble. I am very much in favor of home-made diets made with cooked meat and grains, raw veggies and fruits, as long as you have researched your dog's current health status and breeding history if possible. I feed a high quality kibble, heavily supplemented with fresh food and herbs.*
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Scooter is fed on James Well Beloved which he adores. He is such a hoover (he should be called Dyson) he will eat anything in his path...!! Particularly partial to raw carrots (he plays with them first, before he scoffs them). :P
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When you say the quality in the kibble is better, is this in all kibble or do you feed organic kibble?
No - not all kibble is better -its worth visiting the websites of the diferent manufactures to see what each of them contain - if they don't SAY its organic, then its not :lol:
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But Burns doesn't have chemicals or coulors in it either, neither does naturediet.
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But they aren't organic, and that was the point I was replying to here.
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But they aren't organic, and that was the point I was replying to here.
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Actually, one of the products in their range is .....
From the Burns Pet Nutrition website
ORGANIC
95%+ organic ingredients (unlike many so-called organic pet foods)
Contains: Organic Rice, Organic Oats,
Organic Barley, Organic Fish, Fish Oil, Organic Sunflower Oil, Seaweed, Minerals & Vitamins.
Typical Analysis/100g: Protein 18.5%, Oil 7.5%, Fibre 4.0%, Ash 4.5%, Vit A 8000 iu/kg, Vit D 1500 iu/kg, Vit E 50iu/kg, Moisture 8%, Copper 15mg/kg, Sodium 0.16%, Calcium 0.73%, EFA 3.28%, Carbohydrates 57.5%
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This website is one of the millions that point out the dangers, dangers that I have unfortunately seen at work. My ogs don't get sticks, so they don't get bones that they can swallow either.
http://secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_...estimonies.html (http://secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/testimonies.html)
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http://bestfrisbeedogs.com/diets.html (http://bestfrisbeedogs.com/diets.html) click on Billinghurst Rebuttal.
Ok one of Burns foods is organic - but wow look at the amount of grain in that..... :unsure:
Shona - I do accept that people don't want to feed raw - but I still don't see why you can't accept that I felt like that too. You can't compare raw food being fed to a canine, to heroin given to a human. Raw meat and bones ARE a canines natural diet.
Anyway the Billinghurst rebuttal says it all far better than I can. :)