BARF & weight loss

[Abby]

Hi guys, long time no see 

I am here for advice if possible, about getting weight off podgster Clive. He is now 4 3/4 and was neutered a year ago. When we moved here in December 2007 he was very slight and gangly and around 13kg but he then piled on quite a lot of muscle tone and accordingly upped his weight.

But, the last 18 months I have struggled to keep it down and when I took him to the vets today he weighed in at 18.8kg    He looks padded and only has a slight waist, but  he is a chunky build bone wise (rather than one of those fine boned cockers), but he HAS to get down at least to 15kg, preferably 14kg. His weight has been up and down over the last few months, but never by much.

He is fed on a largely RAW diet as it controls his colitis and the vet wants him to go on a prescription diet, but I want to try longer with raw to see if it's possible. I will go back to weighing absolutely everything and peeling as much fat off as I can, but already he is not on lamb (piles on the weight with that) and only gets cooked chicken or carrot sticks for training or bedtime treats (and then it is taken away from overall food).

I do think it is just a weight issue, on top of the neutering, not anything else healthwise.  I can only give him so much veg to pad out or it flares up his colitis. Also he gets a very good amount of exercise, though he's not very active when at home.

When I have been very strict with portion size reduction he turns into a scavenging obsessed monster (I've even found him up on tables in the pub  )

Any thoughts or tips? Thanks guys.

[Karma]

Would 3 very small meals help?  Just so he wasn't going so long between meals, so didn't feel the impact of restricted rations?

[Abby]

He already has his food split into three meal actually, forgot to say that.

Thanks for the thought.

[bluegirl]

I know its more difficult with a neutered dog but mine are on raw and I weigh them roughly every 3 mths. Sometimes their weight does creep up a bit but generally they are not too bad weight wise. I try to stick to the 2% rule and weigh out food according to what I would like their weight to be, if they are quite a bit over then it would what I'd like them to be plus about 500g. I don't give treats, I up their exercise and cut back on meals, then put blinkers on so their soppy eyes don't make me give in I also cut back on chicken skin, fattier meats and oils I would normally use, but I don't cut them out altogether as they are important to their health. If you normally give chicken wings try swapping them for drumsticks with most of the skin removed as you may find it'll help.

Looks like you are trying hard to reduce his weight and with the restrictions you have ie his colitis and castration side effects I think it will just take more time than say I would expect with mine.

[Abby]

Thanks Bluegirl, the bit about swapping wings for legs is particularly helpful as I find it hard to get enough skin off the wings.

I am going to aim for 16kg to start with by giving him 2% daily of that weight, that's just under 3 kg to lose, and then once he reaches that I'll see how he looks and readjust so he's aiming for 15kg then think again. I think I'll give him more rabbit as he only gets that occasionally, since he's not getting any lamb.

[SimonandMandy]

We got Harvey down with raw going for 2% mark and cutting all treats with exception of 1 gravy bone at bedtime.  I have avoided feeding bones though and only about to start introducing again so another option to consider, fish is excellent and a great alternative while you try and sort weight - between packets for Harv I feed sardines with a raw egg but any fish is good (canned tuna is another quick win, Diesel was started on this for first couple of meals as it helps sort water retention).   For Harvey we are feeding natures instinct - 1kg working dog chicken across 7 meals (it looks meagre), 2 meals a day.  It has taken about 3 months but he is now where we want him.

For Diesel our foster we have got 1.3 kg off him a fortnight feeding natures diet aftr his first couple of tuna meals (was 23.4kg starting weight) - 1 packet across 4 meals, 3 meals a day - naturesdiet is only 10% protein, chappie is another low fat option but it works out more expensive than naturesdiet. Again his only treat is a gravy bone at bedtime, for his lunch time meal I put this in a kong.

Good luck and do perservere.... and remember dogs don't need a varied diet so you can stick with feeding same type of food so you can assess whether it is having an impact.

[bluegirl]

Thanks Bluegirl, the bit about swapping wings for legs is particularly helpful as I find it hard to get enough skin off the wings.

I am going to aim for 16kg to start with by giving him 2% daily of that weight, that's just under 3 kg to lose, and then once he reaches that I'll see how he looks and readjust so he's aiming for 15kg then think again. I think I'll give him more rabbit as he only gets that occasionally, since he's not getting any lamb.

Forgot to mention you can take most of the chicken skin off thighs easily enough too.

[Helen]

how about things like turkey necks? and yes, more rabbit would be great as it's lean (and venison if you can get it)?

[Abby]

Can't get turkey necks, but can get venison and sometimes chicken thighs (am stubborn and will only buy free-range or barn fed at the least and don't have lots of supermarkets round here so it's what I can get).

Thanks!

[Helen]

hmmmm...I'd do a stock take of your pork scratchings in the pub, I reckon he's nicking a few packets 

[JaspersMum]

We struggled with Jasper's weight on Barf as some of the meat was very fatty.  We ended up going back to kibble to be able to monitor the intake better.    Jasper is naturally a big cocker and likes his food! 

[ali carrera]

Thank you Abby for this thread as I am having the same problem with my spayed girlie.
She adores her chicken wings and I agree stripping the skin can be fiddly.
May I just clarify that chicken thighs, drumsticks would be ok if I strip the skin off- I thought I had read somewhere that weight bearing should be avoided.
If ok this would be the way forward for me

[Helen]

weight bearing bones are generally a no-no for digesting but for smaller animals like chickens and rabbits it shouldn't pose an issue 

[bluegirl]

Thank you Abby for this thread as I am having the same problem with my spayed girlie.
She adores her chicken wings and I agree stripping the skin can be fiddly.
May I just clarify that chicken thighs, drumsticks would be ok if I strip the skin off- I thought I had read somewhere that weight bearing should be avoided.
If ok this would be the way forward for me

Its fine, mine get them all the time. If you are worried however you can either strip the skin and then put the whole leg, drumstick or thigh (mine have all) in a bag and use a hammer to smash the leg bone until you feel happy that it is fine enough for your dog, or strip the skin, then separate the meat from either the thigh bone, the leg bone or both then again get the bones in a bag and smash with hammer until small, until you feel more confident or forever if you like. As long as your dog gets bone it doesn't really matter how they eat it.

Mine eat rabbit legs and full duck or chicken legs aswell as the chicken wings, necks, lamb ribs without being broken and have always been fine. Even my pre 8 week pups have been able to polish off thigh bones as long as I bashed them first.

[Abby]

hmmmm...I'd do a stock take of your pork scratchings in the pub, I reckon he's nicking a few packets 

It does drive me nuts how many people still feed the dogs titbits in the pub  We have signs up and tell all new people but still I catch people. Unfortunately for Clive potato is a big no-no so people giving him crisps or chips (the most common) messes up his tummy every time.

I'm seriously considering not letting him in the pub without a T-shirt printed up with "If you feed me the Landlady will KILL YOU"   

JaspersMum - it sis tempting to put him on a processed diet like the vet advised but even sensitive brands have his colitis straight back