Author Topic: Dam & sire that have the same mother...  (Read 6008 times)

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Offline ScruffersMamabear

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Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« on: March 05, 2018, 06:04:46 PM »
Just wondered what peoples reactions are about our Scruffers lineage...
His parents have the same mother but different fathers. Does anyone else find this weird/unusual or even unacceptable?

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 09:32:26 PM »
Where did he come from? Do you have his registered name? Would you share it on here?
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline phoenix

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 07:54:38 AM »
I've never been a breeder, but I would think it to be strange ,  were you told this when you got  Scruffers?  It's a delicate subject.
If he was registered,  a five year pedigree chart would give a significant amount of matching . The Kennel Club website may give the advice you are wanting . There are links to registered dogs and and tests their owners have declared. 
It's pot luck what you get, lots of very nicely bred pedigrees on here, like mine,  have health problems, but that's probably why we joined the forum. The vast majority of Cockers ,one of  the most popular and numerous breeds in the country, are fine.  The only issue would be not to breed him without proper advice.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Pearly

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 08:45:47 AM »
Just wondered what peoples reactions are about our Scruffers lineage...
His parents have the same mother but different fathers. Does anyone else find this weird/unusual or even unacceptable?

If you have the KC names of dam and sire you can check the COI of your boy on the Kennel Club site - mate select.  I’m no expert on breeding so can’t comment on close line breeding other than I am aware there are certain “rules” that need to be followed.  Top lines will “line breed” to replicate traits.

Is your boy a shoe type or working cocker?

Offline Jane S

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 09:18:18 AM »
It's unusual for good breeders to breed half sister and half brother together and is not something I would do personally - perhaps it was an accidental mating? Having said that the KC permit such matings to be registered and have only banned full sibling matings & also father/daughter and mother/son matings.
Jane

Offline ScruffersMamabear

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 12:16:00 PM »
It's unusual for good breeders to breed half sister and half brother together and is not something I would do personally - perhaps it was an accidental mating? Having said that the KC permit such matings to be registered and have only banned full sibling matings & also father/daughter and mother/son matings.

I rang the KC this morning & they advised me that they will register half brother & half sister. We, as a family, are in total shock!

Offline ScruffersMamabear

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 04:32:07 PM »
Where did he come from? Do you have his registered name? Would you share it on here?
I would happily Emily... He came from Staffordshire and his KC name is '******** Man On A Mission' :)

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 05:17:18 PM »
Where did he come from? Do you have his registered name? Would you share it on here?
I would happily Emily... He came from Staffordshire and his KC name is "********* Man On A Mission' :)


What a wonderful name for a cocker!! „On a mission“ is how we always describe Humphrey when he picks up a stick tree and decides he‘s going to take it home!  :lol:

Offline ScruffersMamabear

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 05:56:46 PM »
Where did he come from? Do you have his registered name? Would you share it on here?
I would happily Emily... He came from Staffordshire and his KC name is '********** Man On A Mission' :)


What a wonderful name for a cocker!! „On a mission“ is how we always describe Humphrey when he picks up a stick tree and decides he‘s going to take it home!  :lol:
Yeah, when we knew his KC name we thought it fitted him well lol... Bless Humphrey  :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 08:23:56 PM »
Where did he come from? Do you have his registered name? Would you share it on here?
I would happily Emily... He came from Staffordshire and his KC name is '********** Man On A Mission' :)
Thank you for sharing. Well, your boy is very well bred. He has come from a long line of show dogs who have done very well in the ring. He has very well known lines - wiljana, bitcon and lynwater to name a few. He was line bred to keep a type, I would think. This used to be more common than it is today, but is still quite common amongst those who show and trial competitively. And who are keen to establish a type or a working line with specific working capability. I had wondered whether he had half siblings as parents just because the breeders were breeding whatever they had (something backyard/ puppy farmers often do)but this is definitely not the case with your dog.  Sometimes very close breeding can result in hereditary diseases rearing their ugly head, and this may possibly be how your boy has ended up with epilepsy. But there is no dna health test for cockers first this, so the breeders weren’t to know it might have been in their lines somewhere.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Jane S

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 09:20:11 AM »
I've edited the affix out as it identifies the breeder and we don't generally want to do this in discussions like this. Only the breeder can really advise why he/she did this particular mating but I would say that while close line breeding used to be the norm in the "old days" for show type breeders, it really isn't so much these days - times have changed
Jane

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 12:53:23 PM »
Fair enough Jane. While it may not be ‘the norm’ these days for show breeders, it does still happen. And it’s not done through negligence. Personally I’d be more concerned about backyard breeders putting anything to anything purely to make money with no consideration for improving the breed. My working type has a high coi (>20) as comes from line bred trialling stock to enhance working characteristics. Coi in working types is often high, particularly in trialling bred stock. Not condoning irresponsible close line breeding, just putting it out there as to why it is and has been done. The op’s dog comes from strong bitch and dog lines rather than the often seen weak bitch line to sh ch dog.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Jane S

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 04:34:13 PM »
Yes I do know that some breeders still practice close line breeding but nowhere near like it used to happen and I also know well-known show breeders who have had accidental matings too - it can happen to the best of breeders with bitches that have silent seasons etc. I wasn't suggesting negligence either just that I know it happens ;)
Jane

Offline ScruffersMamabear

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Re: Dam & sire that have the same mother...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2018, 01:14:10 PM »
Thank you Jane, sorry about that...