Failing at House Training

[Groover]

Six weeks and virtually no progress made so we are getting a bit frustrated. Note - 3yo female. Defecation is OK, it's urination that is the problem. Here is what we are doing:

 - every time she wakes up, finishes eating, we return home or she gets particularly active we put her outside
 - if we catch her in the act we say 'no' and put her outside
 - we go outside with her so she feels more comfortable
 - we praise her and give her a command 'go potty', 'good potty' while she is doing it
 - she urinates on every walk so the command and praise is reinforced every time
 - we clean the carpets with bio washing powder
 - blood test came back normal for everything, haven't done a urine test

We try to keep an eye on her at all times and we have managed to catch her in the act a few times, but she seems to do it in the house when our back is turned. Not sure if she is watching us to see or if it's just bad luck. We try to make sure she is in the same room as us at all times, but it seems to happen when we are moving around the house.

Because of the large amount of times we are putting her outside through the day she is starting to resent it a bit. 95% of the time when we go outside she just stands at the back door and ignores us and just wants to go back in. We all go out as a pack (two other dogs), we walk around the garden, we act relaxed, we ignore her and walk away, etc. We keep it positive outside at all times.

She doesn't ask to go outside at all. Doesn't go near the door, sit near it, etc.

Most nights at around 3am she starts to get a bit active and we wake up and take her outside. Usually she is willing to go outside then.

Any hints, tips, etc. would be appreciated! Thanks!

[Londongirl]

What’s her background? If there has ever been a pattern in the past when she has been punished for urinating indoors, she may have learned to do it in secret and also be more comfortable urinating when you’re not around. I know that doesn’t really help, except maybe there is some way of changing her thinking? If you are saying ‘no’ and whisking her outside when you catch her going indoors, that might be reinforcing her fear. So maybe, unlike a puppy, you just need to not react at all when that happens? Just a thought.

Also, rather than thinking in terms of her ‘resenting’ being put outdoors so often, try thinking in dog terms. They don’t do ‘resent’. So why is she turning her back and wanting to go back indoors? Because that’s what she wants to do, not pee. Or she wants to pee but doesn’t want to do it in front of you so chooses not to. Or... it could be lots of things, but doggy things, which can be simpler that we humans think!  Is taking her out so often helping or hindering? While it’s great for puppies, it might be stressing her more.

[bizzylizzy]

Good points made by LG.  I'm also wondering if its becoming a bit of an issue and exasperating the problem ?  They do pick up on our anxieties and it could be that she's a little confused and that's frightening her? Maybe try not saying No when you catch her in the act but simply take her out without any reaction at all, it might just ease the tension a bit. It does sound fear related.
How is she with the other dogs? Could there possibly be any connection there? Don't know if that's any help, - just trying to provide food for thought really, - best of luck!

[Groover]

Thanks for the suggestions. We've only caught her in the act at most three times in six weeks. Most of the time we find the puddle and we don't react at all, just put her outside.

Although she is an ex-breeding dog her fear is mostly gone at this point.

She is getting along great with the other dogs - no issues.

[Gazrob]

Have you considered getting a dog crate? I used one for my dog. They don't like to pee in their crate. I used to put my dog in the crate when I wasn't home or couldn't supervise him. Try limiting her freedom around the house for a while for instance just the kitchen and her crate. Also try letting your dog out in the yard every hour or so see if she will go. another tip keep her on a lead so you can have a bit more control over her.

[ips]

I have no experience of this but given these dogs background I think its fare to assume that they will ha e become effectively institutionalised and will see toileting outside of there kennel an alien concept.
That is how I read it but its not based on experience

[sodpot2000]

Sometimes ex-breeding dogs will just follow the lead of the other dogs and do as they do. Sometimes they will have learned things which keep them safe. These are the things which are the slowest to change. The problem we have is that we don't know what they are and why.

An unrelated example. A dog has been kicked when it came near a man in kennels. It learns that if I keep away from men I don't get kicked. When the dog comes into our homes the rule of thumb still works; she runs away and there is no kicking, but the dog cannot immediately know that she wouldn't have been kicked anyway.

I think all you can do is go back to the same routines you would use with a puppy take her out after every meal/drink and at lots of intervals between (hourly?). Make it fun going out. Lots of praise when she performs. It is likely to take longer with your girl because she has to both unlearn her previous behaviour and learn new.

Patience, consistency and kind persistence pay off eventually.

Good luck to you.

[PennyB]

It took ages for my most recent adoption - she had spent all her life in kennels and is now age 7 (she came out of kennels a year ago)

Even my other 7 year old who I've had as a pup took ages to housetrain then every autumn when it gets cooler and wetter I start finding puddles again - even when she's been out as half the time she dips so low I think its too cold and wet for her bum but every year we go through this and I make sure she pees while she's out