Best breeding for agility?

[Eceni]

Hello

am dedicated to getting a working cocker now, just need to find the right one (Optigen tested, hip scored, nice natured etc. etc....) and on that score, was wondering if anyone had done any studies on the best lines for agility?  that is, if any of the working strains is proving better than others?

My assumption is that some of the lighter framed, more agile ones will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

all/any thoughts welcome

thanks

e

[Cazzie]

Funnily you should ask this, I did agility with everydog I have here today and who came out on top  "Otter" my slab  That was out of a working cocker, JRT, springers, dalmation & a collie 

[Rosie]

I think it is extremyl variable and mostly comes down to training.

Spice is not the lightest framed little dog but is a real star where as some of the leaner dogs I have sen are a complete nightmare.  It would be easy to pick up a few names from agility voice etc but ultimately I always think it comes to training. I did a lot of research bfore getting Spice but it depends on your criteria - I wanted a smaller bitch and certianly got that but even that is no guarantee as the other bitch as a large lass!!  When I looked for Spice I wanted a nice compact mum, health testing and a real good keen strong working ability and not nec in agility.  Spice is not from "agility" lines in that I went for a breeder who traditionally had not allowed dogs to ggo anywhere but traditional working homes.  It too k a fair bit of persduading that agility would be real work.


Good luck with your search

[Cazzie]

will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

Can I ask what you mean by "cover busting tanks" that people want for shooting 

[Eceni]

The ones that are thick set, very low to the ground, very, very chunkily built (and tend to be super-keen to surge into cover) - I've seen a few out hawking like that but not at a time when I was sufficiently interested to ask about breeding lines.

I'm sure they're lovely, lovable dogs, just that I don't want to live with one.

e

[Cazzie]

The ones that are thick set, very low to the ground, very, very chunkily built (and tend to be super-keen to surge into cover) - I've seen a few out hawking like that but not at a time when I was sufficiently interested to ask about breeding lines.

I'm sure they're lovely, lovable dogs, just that I don't want to live with one.

e

  No idea what your going on about    It certainly cant be about a working dog as regardless of build they need to be "Super keen" and under control or they shouldnt be there  If its a pet what the heck does it matter what they are like

[Helen]

I think it is extremyl variable and mostly comes down to training.

Spice is not the lightest framed little dog but is a real star where as some of the leaner dogs I have sen are a complete nightmare.  It would be easy to pick up a few names from agility voice etc but ultimately I always think it comes to training. I did a lot of research bfore getting Spice but it depends on your criteria - I wanted a smaller bitch and certianly got that but even that is no guarantee as the other bitch as a large lass!!  When I looked for Spice I wanted a nice compact mum, health testing and a real good keen strong working ability and not nec in agility.  Spice is not from "agility" lines in that I went for a breeder who traditionally had not allowed dogs to ggo anywhere but traditional working homes.  It too k a fair bit of persduading that agility would be real work.


Good luck with your search

agree, and mine is from a similar background....but we are in no stretch of the imagination as expert in agility as you and Spice 

don't know what you've seen Eceni in working cockers but I probably wouldn't be particularly pleasant if someone referred to my 'traditionally' sized working cocker as a cover busting tank....and most working strain cockers should be super-keen to surge into cover whatever their size and shape - I'd be worried if they weren't....

[Cob-Web]

will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

Can I ask what you mean by "cover busting tanks" that people want for shooting 

This seems to be a popular phrase used on gun dog forums; it reminds me of the type of dogs seen in Stately Home old oil paintings of spaniels out in the field next to their master 

Like a lot of the nicknames associated with breeds and strains, I am sure it is a term of endearment......some people love them, and some don't 

[Cazzie]

will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

Can I ask what you mean by "cover busting tanks" that people want for shooting 

This seems to be a popular phrase used on gun dog forums; it reminds me of the type of dogs seen in Stately Home old oil paintings of spaniels out in the field next to their master 

Like a lot of the nicknames associated with breeds and strains, I am sure it is a term of endearment......some people love them, and some don't 

   Ive never ever heard of this term of endearment unless its a slab your referring too 

[Helen]

will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

Can I ask what you mean by "cover busting tanks" that people want for shooting 

This seems to be a popular phrase used on gun dog forums; it reminds me of the type of dogs seen in Stately Home old oil paintings of spaniels out in the field next to their master 

Like a lot of the nicknames associated with breeds and strains, I am sure it is a term of endearment......some people love them, and some don't 

...just that I've never met a working cocker that fit's that description....must be a strain particular to Eceni's region I guess.  I'm guessing the OP means the smaller compact ones...which is Jarvis - and to describe him as a cover busting tank is laughable.

None of the workers I know, large or small, can't be described as thick set, low to the ground and very chunkily built....but ALL the working cockers I know can be described as keen as mustard to get into cover...isn't that what they're bred for??

[Cazzie]

will do better than the cover-busting tanks that some people want for shooting, but I could be wrong (and haven't worked out which are the cover-busters anyway)

Can I ask what you mean by "cover busting tanks" that people want for shooting 

This seems to be a popular phrase used on gun dog forums; it reminds me of the type of dogs seen in Stately Home old oil paintings of spaniels out in the field next to their master 

Like a lot of the nicknames associated with breeds and strains, I am sure it is a term of endearment......some people love them, and some don't 

...just that I've never met a working cocker that fit's that description....must be a strain particular to Eceni's region I guess.  I'm guessing the OP means the smaller compact ones...which is Jarvis - and to describe him as a cover busting tank is laughable.

None of the workers I know, large or small, can't be described as thick set, low to the ground and very chunkily built....but ALL the working cockers I know can be described as keen as mustard to get into cover...isn't that what they're bred for??

Ive never heard such utter garbage in all my life, thick set and low to the ground and chunky built thats a dam sausuage dog she's talking about 

If you want a good agility dog get a ruddy collie 

[Cayley]

It's very much how you train the dog rather than where you buy it, a brilliant handler can make an ok dog look good whereas a bad handler can make a fantastic dog look rubbish. You've got to live with the dog away from the 20 secs in the ring so don't be to swayed by others successes  .

[Eceni]

guys, chill.... this isn't a flame war.

there are some cockers that are light of frame, slightly taller, generally slightly finer coats and there are some that are thick set, bigger boned, generally bigger in body. I could pull you pics of either off working sites now except that someone somewhere would take it as an insult  - and there are obvious issues of copyright.  If I get out with a camera and can take some pics of my own - and post them with the owner's permission, I'll do so.

I'm a vet, I've probably seen several hundred working cockers from all over the country (I used to work in a referral centre and I had some specialist interests which took me to a number of different venues).  It's stating the obvious that there is a range of type in the working cocker and I want something at one end of that range. 


e

[Helen]

I think Rosie is clearly showing that size isn't everything, and it's all in the hands of the handler.

Good luck with your search - personally I find it sad to think in the future that people may be breeding a gun dog specifically for agility and dulling it's working sense, which in fact is what you seem to be after.

[Eceni]

I'm really not - I'll be going hawking along with the rest  - I have no idea how this came to be focussed on drive when I was looking for a specific physical type, but thanks to those who have PMed, I now have some leads to follow.

case closed

e