PPM and Hermaphrodite linked???

[Loes]

I have read on a Dutch weblog that they suspect a link between PPM (they call it MPP) and hermaphrodite. Have you heard anything about this subject?

I have translated a small part:

"I have had a list of cockers who were carriers of hermaphrodite and a list of registered PPM-dogs. After one afternoon of puzzeling (pedigrees) I was shocked: almost every roan PPM-dog had a link to a hermaphrodite-carrier"

Has anyone else inversitigated if this is true?


Loes from Holland

[Loes]

I've posted this in Health already, but I thing it fits better in this category:

I have read on a Dutch weblog that they suspect a link between PPM (they call it MPP) and hermaphrodite. Have you heard anything about this subject?

I have translated a small part:

"I have had a list of cocker's who were carriers of hermaphrodite and a list of registered PPM-dogs. After one afternoon of puzzling (pedigrees) I was shocked: almost every roan PPM-dog had a link to a hermaphrodite-carrier"

Has anyone else investigated if this is true?


Loes from Holland

[spanielcrazy]

I've never heard of it but it may be because of a smaller gene pool?  I'd like to see the study done with more breeds.

[Nicola]

I've merged the two threads on this and left them on this board as I think it fits better in here.

[Jane S]

I've never heard of it but it may be because of a smaller gene pool?  I'd like to see the study done with more breeds.

Not heard of it either & agree to prove any connection, you'd need a proper independent research study set up rather then just a breeder collating pedigrees and coming to a conclusion which may or may not be justified

[Loes]

Dear Jane,

That's exactly the reason I have posted this!! I would really like to see that investigated. We need more information! So if you know someone who can look in to this (impartially !!) I would be very pleased!

I did a little check myself on basis of the few (3) hermaphrodite carriers in Holland I know, and the particolor on the MPP-list from Holland (about 20 names) and even I can explain quit a few MPP-dogs.

The problem is that many breeders (in Holland, so I presume you have the same problem) are not telling all they know.

Regards,

Loes

[spanielcrazy]

The problem is that many breeders (in Holland, so I presume you have the same problem) are not telling all they know.

That problem is universal 

[Jane S]

That's exactly the reason I have posted this!! I would really like to see that investigated. We need more information! So if you know someone who can look in to this (impartially !!) I would be very pleased!

If you have a national Cocker Spaniel Club in Holland, I suggest you start by contacting them. Research into any health condition is extremely expensive so it's not something an individual can really instigate on their own. In the UK, we also have the Animal Health Trust which researches conditions in dogs (and other animals) so perhaps there is something similar in Holland.

[Loes]

The reason I call on you all is because this is not a Dutch problem, it is an cocker-problem from everywhere.  In Holland there are not enough carriers known (I am sure there are more then we know!) to make an big investigation. So is anybody would volunteer information in this subject it would be welcome.  If it is true it would be easy to recognize (lowkey) hermaphrodites by something as simple as PPM!

Loes

[loppylugs]

Sorry for being so ignorant,but what is ppm and Hermaphrodite?

[spanielcrazy]

PPM stands for persistant puppilary membranes. Basically, when puppies are in utero and before their eyes are open they have a membrane across their eyes (under the lids) which dissolves while they are still very young. SOmetimes it will not completely absorb--persist. There is a photo in the link

http://www.animal-eye-specialists.com/ppm.htm

Hermaphrodites have both male and female genitalia  Sometimes they will look like a normal male or female, but the male may have ovaries or the female may have a small penis inside her vagina.

[loppylugs]

Thank you.

[Mazame]

A little late but...

There are so many cockers in the world with PPM. I am sure that by collecting pedigrees and crossing them, you should find a connection between PPM and any other hereditary disease.

But I would be interested in knowing whether someone has heard of hermaphrodism in unicolor cockers. Every cas I have been told was in particolor ones...

[Loes]

I do not know your MPP (or your hermaphrodite) statistics. But far as I know in Holland and Sweden, who have a public database. There are not many not so many MPP-cases. In sweden there are 12 particolors with MPP (I do not know how long they have tested  MPP, but at least sonce 2003 there are records) . In holland we have 20 parti's with MPP in 7 years.  In holland we also only have 10 confirmed cases of XX-sry last 10 years. So statisticly it would be quit a coincidence if MPP and hermaphroditism links, wouldn't it? 

I have recently read the report from Dr. Wallen-Meyer. She is doing the genetic research on XX-sry negative. She now wrote XX-sry negative hermaphroditism is most possibly dominant, not recessive as she previously stated.

Loes