CAN YOU BREED SHOW TYPE & WORKING TYPE COCKER SPANIELS

[sue.kevd]

Hiya,
I'm considering breeding my 2 year old working type cocker spaniel with my neighbours show type cocker spaniel.  Both are KC registered.  Can you breed the two different types?

[loppylugs]

yes,it does happen.I know alot of people who have got crosses like this.Some can be more show looking,some more working,some a bit of both.Yes you can registar them,they are pure cockers,after all.

[Sarah1985]

Its not a mix I would consider when buying a pup. Mixing working and show makes for an unpredictable working drive/coat/energy levels/exercise requirments ect. You may end up with the best traits of the two strains but you could  equally the worse. So please make sure you have a waiting list of good homes lined up before going ahead

However if you have a waiting list for all the pups and both dogs have passed their health tests then your doing everything right.


Good luck.

[Poppsie]

when we lost poppy, we decided to get another puppy to keep pebbles company.  we got Maisie from a lady who bred her mother (working) with a show cocker.  The result was a beautiful looking dog but absolutely manic in temperament, meaning that she was loopy bouncing around wouldn't keep still (like a working). She took after her mother for that, pebbles wouldn't accept her so we had to re home her.  With hind site I think it was for the best as I don't think I could have coped with all that bouncing around (please don't think badly of me). so think carefully ? x x x

[cazza]

Is this your first time of breeding dogs??


Can you please modify your title and not use capitals as this is seen as Shouting

[MegandMolly]

Why would you want to thou?
It's not a litter that would be an improvement to either strain  

[sue.kevd]

Thanks for all the replies, all of which are gratefully accepted and considered.
The main reason for considering Cooper (show type) is that they have a great relationship and play together endlessly - both are great natured, and are stunning looking dogs.  I thought (maybe I'm hoping for too much!) that the puppies would have a mixture of both natures ie a bit of the working dog trait, but maybe just a bit calmer due to the show type daddy.
This would be my first time breeding, and I still have a lot of homework to do before committing myself to going ahead.
Apologies also for the title.  I didn't realise I was shouting as it is my first time on this forum!!

[Emma xx]

Hi and welcome to the forum

IMO, i think there are enough people breeding cockers in the right way (i.e same strain parents etc), and by adding your litter its just going to add to the flow of puppies already being produced and it wont really have any benefits for the breed itself
Plus, like has been mentioned the puppies could end up having the most 'difficult' qualities of both strains and they may end up in homes where they just cant handle them and end up being rehomed . At least most people buying working cockers will know what they are getting (highly energetic dog with lots of drive and needs lots of stimulation) and same with people getting show cockers (generally thicker coat, maybe slightly calmer but still lots of exercsise and time needed). If everybody with a good tempermented cocker breed their dog with another good tempermented cocker, imagine how many puppies there would be .

I dont know, like you say the dogs are both registered so yep so could the pups be. If its what you want then its totally up to you , nobody can stop you . Please think it through carefully though.

Like i said this is just my opinion, please dont listen if you dont want to

Emma xx

[JaspersMum]

Welcome to COL and well done for looking at the whole issue of breeding before you go ahead.

It's worth you looking at the threads concerning what people are advised to look for when buying a puppy and the threads at the top of the breeding board about the risks of breeding both for the bitch and the stud dog.  The stud dog owner may find that they suddenley have a very different natured dog on their hands for example
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=3428.0
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=3420.0
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=48072.0

It is also very expensive to get all health tests done if you only wanted to have one litter and potentially might end up loosing money (not to mention your lovely girl)      What would you do if you could not sell your pups or if owners couldn't cope and wanted you to take them back? Lots to consider before you commit.

I do have a working/show mix.  He has lovely parents but he has had his share of challenging moments.  I love him to bits and wouldn't swop him for the world though but with hind-sight not sure that I would of even gone to see him when I knew he was a mix  

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I think it's great that you're doing lots of research

I've always walked away from mixed show/working litters - even Kennel Club registered ones, however lovely the parents are and however pretty the pups look.. There are two strains of cocker for a reason and whilst there are some lovely mixed show/workers, there are also a good number with difficult temperaments and strange looks -  you can't guarantee what you'll get, however lovely the parents! You would be breeding just for the pet market and the brutal truth is that whilst your neighbours worker may be of an easy temperament you could still produce puppies that have high hunt/work drives but lack the biddability and focus of a good working dog and therefore be very difficult pets to manage.

The number of healthy young dogs put to sleep every week because there just aren't the homes that can manage them is extremely upsetting anyway and rescues everywhere are full to bursting.. Breeding IMO is a very very big responsibility any responsible breeder should be prepared to take back the puppies they breed for the whole of the dogs life - whatever medical condition or behavioural problem arises and shouldn't even consider breeding until both parent dogs have been fully health tested such as; eyes tested, tests for FN (kidney failure disease), hips x-rayed and scored etc etc) - which is expensive in itself. If I was you, I'd enjoy the wonderful dogs you have and leave breeding to the experts  

[Cayley]

There is a safety issue to consider when mating maiden dogs and bitches without someone experienced to help as they can get into difficulty and injure each other if they aren't held correctly. People are wising up to the need for health tests so with that and them being a cross of the two types you could really struggle to find homes knowledgable enough for the pups  .

[vixen]

I know where you are coming from. I have two working girls who I adore and I have thought that it would be wonderful to have a puppy from each as a continuation of them.  I think most bitch owners may have thought this at some point    If there was a 100% GUARANTEE that each girl would have one puppy each, I 'may' have gone ahead and kept the 2 puppies. Realistically, this would be very unlikely.  I couldn't morally justify bringing more puppies into the world when there is already a surplus (and healthy dogs being put to sleep EVERY day) plus I would worry about finding homes for the 'extra' puppies.
I decided that if I did want another puppy of similar lines to my girls, then I would go back to the breeder as his expertize has resulted in my fantastic girls. 
I have had my girls spayed and I know it was the right decision for me and them. 

[lindseyp]

Hello Sue & welcome to the forum
Although technically the answer to your question is 'yes', breeding is far more complicated than that & if you are conscientious (which I think you are to be asking in the first place ) then you must find out all you can before going ahead.
I would recommend 'The book of the Bitch' by J M Evans & Kay White & also to have the knowledge, help & support from an experienced breeder if possible.
If you mated the two, you may end up with a beautiful litter of puppies, all healthy & happy, who all go on to loving homes & all live happily ever after but alternatively you may not! I can only give you my experience to help you see how breeding can have a different outcome.
We breed from our lovely, happy girl Purdey (this is all pre COL days I add!  ) after doing all possible health checks available, choosing a suitable stud dog (with help, advice & support all the way from a longstanding breeder  ) she gave us a beautiful litter of 9    - a text book whelp & she was a really good mum    However two of her pups had a condition called microthalmia (also known as small eye) one was not so bad but our little Tinker is blind (she only has one eye that the specialists feel she may be able to see some light & the other didn't develop  ) This condition isn't specific to cockers & there are no genetic tests for it ........any pups can be born with it & I am thankful that only two of Purdey's had the condition because usually the whole litter would have it - we would of had 9 potentially blind pups    which would probably had to be put to sleep     As well as this condition there are others, that can not be tested for also but are a possibility of being born with i.e cleft palate, hermaphrodites, swimmers, cryptorchidism & so may others. I say this not to worry you, as I believe they are quite rare but they are a possibility & the more knowledge you have, the better placed you are to make the right decision for both your dogs & any potential pups 
I cannot say I regret having our litter of puppies because we have a beautiful orange roan Livie, who we had hoped for from the litter & we also have Tinker who (although it has been really, really hard work at times  ) I wouldn't be without & has taught me so much more than I would of ever learnt without her but if you asked me 'would i do it again' ...No! would be my answer - i would leave it to those who know what they are doing & are able to deal with any eventuality 
I don't know if I've expressed this well but hope I have - there are some really knowledgeable people on here who may put it a little better than I can & may come along later
hope this helps you
Lindsey x

[ladylola]

I agree with what others have said, please do your research carefully.

I really see no point in mixing the two strains, they are so very different.
Saying that I have mixes, but they are from rescue centers, put in there at young ages because people couldn't cope with them. It breaks my heart to see how many young cockers are ending up in these places.
You also need to look at the prices of emergency c section should things go wrong. This won't be covered by insurance. I would have liked to have bred my first cocker, but after research decided against it. I couldn't bear to lose my girl, even if there was only a small chance of it. Health testing especially for PRA and FN is a must for me. Read all you can about breeding before you go ahead and the health testing needed.
You may go on to have the perfect litter, who all have forever homes to go to, but especially in this economic climate you just can't be sure.

I am so glad you are asking about this before going ahead. A lot of people wouldn't.  The book of the bitch is a very good book.
I think P@H stock it as well as Amazon.

Welcome to COL, let us know how it all goes.

[Staglemon]

I know i am a bit late posting here but I wanted to put in my 5 pence.
I have never owned a cocker untill now but whilst we were looking the big debate came up of show type versus working type. Obviously we looked into this when purchasing our pup and we found there wasnt a big difference temperament wise with regards to the two strains. I feel this is very much down to the individual owners and breeders.
If your an active family or person then your dog is going to be quite active and energetic but if your relaxed and dont really do much then your dog generally has the same traits.

Working type dogs are like they are because of the way they are reared. The owners of these dogs say they are good with children and they are because they spend a very limited amount of time with the children.

So to summarise, I don't really see how mixing the two strains can be detrimental to the breed. People say they breed cockers to help the breeed yet all they do if bang out show type or working type dogs.

Both types of breeders say to the prespective buyer stay away from the other, surely this is more detrimental to the breed?

I see no reason why the two "different" strains cannot be mixed so long as they have both been DNA tested.
Obviously if you want to show your dog at crufts you will need all show characteristics.