colour not recognized by Kc

[Doro]

in germany we have the sable (solid) and sable roan (pati color)
i now a sable roan, a import from sweden has in his pedigree the color sable and is registrated in germany as sable roan. he is a sable roan!
i think in moment it is a lot of chaos with this both colors.

by facebook is in moment the information that the sable will be banned now. has one of you more informations abaut the discussion in the kc or by the clubs in england?

sorry for my bad english

regards
doro

[Jane S]

The KC is in the process of approving a change to the Cocker breed standard to include a list of accepted colours - sable will not be included in this list.

[doughy]

The KC is in the process of approving a change to the Cocker breed standard to include a list of accepted colours - sable will not be included in this list.

Can I ask why sable is not included ?

[Jane S]

The KC is in the process of approving a change to the Cocker breed standard to include a list of accepted colours - sable will not be included in this list.

Can I ask why sable is not included ?

It was the decision of the breed clubs who all voted on this through the Cocker Breed Council. It won't actually stop people breeding sables, just as other non-standard colours are still bred & registered in other breeds (eg white Boxers or white GSDs)

[Loes]

Jane: I thought (solid) sable would still be accepted as colour.

Is there a difference between registering and a regular pedigree?

[doughy]

The KC is in the process of approving a change to the Cocker breed standard to include a list of accepted colours - sable will not be included in this list.

Can I ask why sable is not included ?

It was the decision of the breed clubs who all voted on this through the Cocker Breed Council. It won't actually stop people breeding sables, just as other non-standard colours are still bred & registered in other breeds (eg white Boxers or white GSDs)

So basically they are saying that `sables` are a mismark or a throw back ?

[Doro]

let me see if i understand right
sable and sable roan will not longer acceped when the standard is change. is the ban for both colors or only for the sable roan? the sables (solid) are breed in germany since more than 25 years.
when the colors are banned and a sable puppie will born it will registred but i can not show it or breed with them?
i am rigth?
it is very interesting for me because a friend of me loves and breed sables. long years solid sables and since last year sable roans.
ok sable is not my color and i will not breed with them but we have a lot of lovers from this color. 25 years ago i have hope that the solid sables will banned but nothing was happend. i think now it is to late to bann the solid sable.
it is also interesting because the standard is the same worldwide and when the kc change the standard germany must do the same in his breedingrules.

[JohnW]

I would have thought they would have at least recognised Solid sables as Doro said they are quite established and I had heard a British bred Sable recently got to Champion in Europe. I do feel the Breed club and Kc have played rite into the hands of the breeders who put a premium on sable pups making them the forbidden fruit, I have heard one recently sold for 1100 pounds JUST because it was sable    BTW Doro you have a lovely website great looking dogs 

[Jane S]

Sorry don't have time to write a lengthy reply but think it's perhaps not right to talk about a ban - not including a colour in a list of desirable colours is the not the same thing as a ban. No colour is banned or disqualified but there will be a list of desirable colours. I don't know how the registrations will work once the breed standard is changed - possibly sable (all variations) will have to be registered as "non standard colour" as I think happens in other breeds but I don't really know so we will have to wait and see.

I think if anyone wants further clarification on this, perhaps they could contact either the Breed Council or the Kennel Club.

[cockers mum]

I don't want to get into a discussion about this, but I understand it is because sable is a dominate gene, and they are afraid that in say 50 years all cockers will be sable and we will lose all our beautiful colours we have now.

[Marina and Saartje]

@ cockersmum, That depend on the cleverness of the breeders don't you think? There will always be people who wants a blue roan, orange roan, liver roan, and the same with all the beautiful solids....
I think a ban on mixing particolours and solids would makes more sense..

@Doro, do you mean Ute?

[JohnW]

I think a ban on mixing particolours and solids would makes more sense..

I could just see working cocker breeders and trialers going for that      I think world war 3 comes to mind 

[Marina and Saartje]

Why?  Is it whit in the working cockerline usual to mix particolours and solids?

I personally think that mixing both in showline makes the pure solid more rare. To much white in the solids or white in the wrong places... that 's not according to the breedingstandard isn't it?

[Helen]

Why?  Is it whit in the working cockerline usual to mix particolours and solids?

colour does not really matter as much when breeding a working cocker - temperament, biddability, conformation (to a breeders particular requirements not necessarily breed standard), health, and of course being fit for purpose all come first.

You see a lot of mismarked working cockers - mine is - his dad is a liver roan and his mum a solid black and when I trim his feet his mismarked roan back paws are evident      But he fulfills all the requirements for being a good solid healthy working dog 

[Doro]

@ Marina and Saartje i know ute but i mean a other breeder

realy, sable is a dominant gene but that we have only sables in 50 jears is nonsense because it is enough that sable comes from one side but if you make combinations with sable and a other solid color you have not only sable in this litters. the sable color is not so dominant like dominant black. ( i don't now how to say it better in english ) germany breed sables since more than 25 years and in the first years all want this color and a lot of puppies was born in sable. today it is a normal solid color .

the new trent mixing solids and partie is more dangerus for the solids i think. with this mix we loose the clear solid gene and type.
i am a solid breeder with the classical colors and it will be from year to year harder to find dogs witout sable and witout partie colors (tis i searce by min 8-9 generations) in there pedigree.