Jasmine has bitten someone

[hoover]

ps, sorry shouldn't have hijacked Jazz's thread.  Hopefully new behaviourist for Jasmine is a good way forward - hopefully they listen a bit more and you can feel more trust in them and what they advise.

[Jazz]

Hoover I'm so sorry to hear about what happened with Ollie, and please don't worry about 'hijacking' my thread. We're all in this together.

You're right about the inconsistency being the hardest thing - suddenly your loyal, snuggly ball of fur turns into teeth and aggression.

xx

[C_phillips]

Thanks everyone.  I will read through old posts again about similar dogs.  We had a very difficult time when Ollie launched himself at my partner's mother on Friday and bit several times when she tried to take a straw of cardboard off him.  It was my partner's birthday and a bit of packaging from a present that he was chewing on and she just went to take it away, and he bit at her hands and arms  Puncture wounds and bruising.

All the things you say sound so ridiculous, and you realise how much you have normalised this awful behaviour and managed it, which no one should be expected to have to know or to put into practice.... like we know with Ollie, if he were to start snapping we would turn all loose and limp and not even try to remove a hand from his teeth ...and he would stop, but if you were to try to push back or block him or even move away he would bite at the next limb, hand, finger, you put in his way.  What an awful thing to try to explain to someone about how we have avoided more serious injury.  How many times have we said about not taking things from him but people just can't put into practice because he gives no indication there will be any problem, so soft, loose and waggy and playful and then from 0-100% in the blink of an eye.  People don't believe it until they see it themselves and it is a huge shock. It's so, so rare for this to happen and it's the apparent inconsistency that is so hard, because on plenty other occasions he would not react in this way in the same apparent situation. He is such a loving dog and it is so hard to reconcile this behaviour.

I don't know that I actually want to discuss it more on here because I'm frightened of what might be said, but I do appreciate your support.  We're just going to have to double down on our management of him and he just can't be around other people. And if we can't avoid that at times then he will just have to be muzzled and learn to keep it on.

#

Hi Hoover,

Sorry to hear about this - Jake has done similar to guests at our home and your line " people don't believe it until they see it" really rings true with us! It's very difficult to manage and harder when its unpredictable - you are not alone in this, we are struggling with similar issues!

It's not entirely related to the problem you had on Friday, but one thing I have ordered recently is some items from https://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/

The idea is that when the dogs are wearing these items of clothing, they are much less likely to be approached and petted by strangers - and may remind guests that your dog shouldn't be touched as they may react.

I'm hoping it puts people off touching Jake, as we live quite anxiously when people approach him!

[hoover]

Thanks again.  What a good idea about that clothing, C_phillips, will have to check that out.  I have got used to being very straight with people when we're out ..'please don't touch him, he can be badly behaved' but these might preempt those situations.  We've had some very well mannered children recently ask if they can stroke Ollie and I always tell them they've done exactly the right thing to ask but no, because my dog isn't always very friendly!  They're such beautiful looking dogs that people just want to touch them and that's part of the problem.

[PennyB]

Hi viz is often the way to go when out as people don't listen so may see you mean business with it written down

I am at point where I am getting one for one of my dogs - in his case its one to suggest he needs space - he gets on with dogs (even though it took 2 weeks for him to get on with my last foster he still managed it well and they were best buddies when Tanner left so goes to show how all dogs are different) but does have an issue sometimes with dogs he doesn't know and owners of unruly dogs who don't teach their dogs good manners but expect your to have them

[hoover]

To give an update for us, we are training Ollie to spend longer times wearing his muzzle.  Using treats to continue with this and putting it on in the late evening when he is already sleepy and so we hope he'll be less fussed for getting it off.  We looked up about t-touch and try that at the same time that he is wearing his muzzle, partner is a sports massage therapist which helps!  That distracts him a bit from trying to take it off too.  We have had a couple of times where he has been reluctant to put it on so we don't press it...we take it away and the next time we just show it to him with a load of chicken to reinforce the positive association and don't ask him to put it on for a wee while.

I've read a few very heartbreaking threads  and can't help but wonder what is ahead.  One of them had a post suggesting a biting dog try out with the police force and this has always been at the back of my mind for Ollie because I feel certain he would make an exceptional sniffer dog.  He can find any of his toys by name, wherever you hide them, high or low.  He has never failed to retrieve those gundog sawdust dummies by smell (we went straight to dark green camouflaged ones so he could not use his sight).  He can be directed to search in different areas. He is desperate to work and 'ball mad' - he would retrieve a frisbee or ball to hand for 2 hours + if you would let him.  I think with a strong handler and more predictable environment he would thrive and could actually be really successful for the police. His guarding is controlled when everyone follows the rules - my partner and I can safely take butchers bones from him now because the 3 of us know the rules of how we go about this.  But other people don't and I don't know how we regulate the big wide world for him as a pet - but I think the police could do this -provide the very structured world where he knows how to work and what is expected of him.

I don't know, we're so torn.  We love him so much and get so much joy from him at home and out on walks but we're anxious too, and so restricted in what we can do now.  As time goes by his suitability for the police will diminish I would guess - he is 2 and three quarters and I imagine they want to accept dogs when they are still pretty young and amenable for their training. We are on holiday next week and he goes to the kennels and they will get the usual information about him (he has never had issues there, that we know of anyway), so hopefully we will get a good report when we're back again.

[Jazz]

I haven't had a chance to arrange a meeting with the new behaviourist yet and as we are away for w week from Thursday I'll chase it up when we get back.

I'm trying to follow some of the advice about moving Jasmine away when we meet people on walks - with mixed results! I was walking along the canal towpath and 2 men (no dog) were approaching us. I successfully moved her to one side on the canal and had her concentrating on me when one of the men swerved towards her, hand out, intent on petting her. Fortunately Jasmine didn't react and I had to say 'Sorry please don't touch her I'm doing some training with her'. He shrugged and walked off and I felt I had been a bit sharp with him, but we met him again and he called cheerfully 'how's the training going?' Phew!

We had a couple of minor incidents yesterday on our walk when she decided to chase a boy on a bike and then ran after a couple of people barking. Then today we have been to Tatton and met up with some Patterdale owners - strange people (as in people she didn't know, not that they were 'strange' in any way  ) and strange lively dogs. She had a great time with them and we had no incidents whatsoever. Later we were sat in the busy courtyard and without me noticing a small child approached her for a pat. She just moved away and I had to say to the boy that it wasn't a good idea to pat her. Fortunately my sister's Patterdale was happy to oblige. 

We're off to the Lakes with the dogs, and hopefully she will cope well.

[hoover]

That's good news that she moves away rather than standing her ground and reacting when she's not happy about someone reaching to her!  Have fun at the Lakes but be careful around the sheep!

[ejp]

That all sounds pretty good going, enjoy your break.

[C_phillips]

To give an update for us, we are training Ollie to spend longer times wearing his muzzle.  Using treats to continue with this and putting it on in the late evening when he is already sleepy and so we hope he'll be less fussed for getting it off.  We looked up about t-touch and try that at the same time that he is wearing his muzzle, partner is a sports massage therapist which helps!  That distracts him a bit from trying to take it off too.  We have had a couple of times where he has been reluctant to put it on so we don't press it...we take it away and the next time we just show it to him with a load of chicken to reinforce the positive association and don't ask him to put it on for a wee while.

I've read a few very heartbreaking threads  and can't help but wonder what is ahead.  One of them had a post suggesting a biting dog try out with the police force and this has always been at the back of my mind for Ollie because I feel certain he would make an exceptional sniffer dog.  He can find any of his toys by name, wherever you hide them, high or low.  He has never failed to retrieve those gundog sawdust dummies by smell (we went straight to dark green camouflaged ones so he could not use his sight).  He can be directed to search in different areas. He is desperate to work and 'ball mad' - he would retrieve a frisbee or ball to hand for 2 hours + if you would let him.  I think with a strong handler and more predictable environment he would thrive and could actually be really successful for the police. His guarding is controlled when everyone follows the rules - my partner and I can safely take butchers bones from him now because the 3 of us know the rules of how we go about this.  But other people don't and I don't know how we regulate the big wide world for him as a pet - but I think the police could do this -provide the very structured world where he knows how to work and what is expected of him.

I don't know, we're so torn.  We love him so much and get so much joy from him at home and out on walks but we're anxious too, and so restricted in what we can do now.  As time goes by his suitability for the police will diminish I would guess - he is 2 and three quarters and I imagine they want to accept dogs when they are still pretty young and amenable for their training. We are on holiday next week and he goes to the kennels and they will get the usual information about him (he has never had issues there, that we know of anyway), so hopefully we will get a good report when we're back again.

Hi hoover I follow your posts actively as a lot of the time, it sounds as though you are describing our dog!

How did it go at the Kennels?

Don't know if you saw our blog, snappyspaniel.wordpress.com but know that you are not alone, as we are working through very similar issues with Jake.

It would be good to get in touch so maybe we can have a chat about the issues and support each other through it? good times and the bad - let me know

Hope you are having / have had a great Holiday!

[hoover]

Hi C Phillips, yes, have been looking at your site and finding many similar issues (and dilemmas about how to manage).  Will pm you now as don't want to take over Jazz's thread!