Breeding My Working Cocker

[Workingspaniel]

Hi guys, I have a beautiful working cocker bitch called Bella who's just over a year old now and has just had her first season. Don't worry! I'm not thinking of breeding from her immediately, I want to wait until she's at least 2 years old before she has her first set of pups. However firstly I was wondering whether Bella has any relatives distant or close on the forum? And secondly, can a suitable stud dog share some of the same acenstors as Bella, and what generation would be too close to share relatives in between the sire and dam?

Here's Bella's pedigree:

Wrenside Bella of Waitby (our pup)

Parents:
Whaupley Silver Fern
High Hill Wanderer

Grandparents:
FT CH Rigfoot Teal
Thornie Teasil
Whitecourt Rollo
Davidon Julie

Great grandparents:
Anahar Whirlwind
Beechcroft Raven
FTW Goldengrove Sabre of Rowston
Rowston Smudge
Wernffrwd Adamson
White Walls Soft Centre
Bournepark Blade
Helkswood Lily

Great great grandparents:
FT CH James of Anahar
FT CH Tayburn Valentina of Anahar
Yogi of Islabank
Peat brown
Rowston Teal of Maesydderwen
Maesydderwen Beauty
FT CH Maesydderwen Kestrel
CH FT CH Ginger imp of Rowston
Graig Felin Adam
FT CH Gwibernant Snake
Craigfelin Bunterson
Murgwyn Bunty
Bisto of Bournepark
FT CH Wernffrwd Pawn
Whitecourt Rollo
Kentee Wagtail

Great great great grandparents:
Jordieland Tip
FT CH FT CH Lollipop of Anahar
Lammerlaw Muffin
FT CH FT CH Tayburn Cockle
Wren of George Way
Black Magic Rogue
Linswell Lark
Coco of Spatchcock
FT CH Stoorie of Laighpark
CH FT CH Ginger Imp of Rowston
FT CH Housty Solo
FT CH Wernffrd Melyngoch
FT CH Swallow Law Snipe
FT CH Wernffrd Melyngoch
FT CH Craig Felin Angus
Mount Pleasant Lass
Windmillwood Socks
FT CH Nancarrow Gypsy
Jasper of Gwibernant
Imp of Gwibernant
FT CH Bunter of Jordieland
FT CH Nancarrow Sooty of Graogfelin
Hartshorn Rob of Weavervale
Nancarrow star
Jasper of Gwibernant
Gwibernant Chimney
FT CH Rhu of Migdale
FT CH Gwibernant Snake
Wernffrwd Adamson
White walls soft centre
FT CH Stoorie of Laighpark
Catshaw Falsh


We'd ideally like to find Bella a stud who's from similar lines to her, because we love everything about her. The points that we'd like to improve if we could would be the coat (a little bit longer with more feathering) and possibly slightly better eyesight as she sometimes looses sight of game, although her sense of smell is wonderful.
Also we'd like the stud to be a Field Trial Champion if at all possible.

Do you think a stud like this exists out there??    

Anyway, I'd love to hear from anyone who owns one of Bella's relatives.

Finally is this pedigree good? or are there some dogs in there which are known to have any hereditary problems? As far as we know all the dogs have no serious hereditary faults, however I'm sure someone out there may well know better than us.

Best wishes Mary

[Jane S]

Hi Mary

It's good to hear you're doing your homework first before deciding to breed I'm sure Kirsten (workingcockers) will be along later to give you specific advice on Bella's pedigree & choosing a stud dog. As far as health screening is concerned, I'm sure you're aware that not many Working Cocker breeders eye test or hip score but that doesn't mean that problems don't exist in Working lines - there have been some poor hip scores recorded for a few Working Cockers from well-known FT lines. if you don't test, you don't know what's there so I would always recommend annual eye testing at the very least (a gene test is also now available for prcd-PRA) and/or hip scoring too

Jane

[miche]

Hi Mary

Welcome to COL

I have two cockers one working and one three quarter working/quarter show.  They are still both young pups and are lovely dogs, so full of character.  I don't work either of them they are pets, although I am waiting to see if they show any Agility Skills - I know flyball is out of the question as Mikey runs the other way when faced with a tennis ball

A lot of names in their pedigree are the same as Bella's, ie Housty Solo, Maesydderwen Kestrel.

I will dig out their pedigree's and have a look out for more names that are the same

[Workingspaniel]

Hi Jane, yes of course I forgot to add that we'll get Bella tested for all the main genetic problems such as eyes, hips etc... before we breed from her. Obviously if she has very poor scores then we just won't breed from her and will have her speyed.

Does anyone know what the main genetic problems that should be tested for in working cockers are?

Best wishes Mary

PS: This is such a friendly forum,   other dog forums have scared me off in the past because of the unfriendliness of the supposed breeders towards newbies like me!  

[Workingspaniel]

oooh how exciting, distant relatives of Bella!   Where did you get your cockers from?
We got Bella from a fantastic family up in Cumbria who only bred their gorgeous bitch once before getting her speyed. So hopefully, all being well with hip tests etc.. we'll be able to carry on the line.

Best wishes Mary

[lyn]

ooh my paddy has loads of these dogs in his pedigree,he is half worker half show but i am not going to breed from him.
hope all goes well for you
lyn

must have taken you ages to copy that pedigree

[Workingspaniel]

Hi Lyn,
          Yes it did take me rather a long time to copy out the pedigree!!    My fingers were rather tired after typing it all out  

Oooh it's so exciting to hear that you've also got dogs in your pedigree that Bella has too.
Which dogs from the pedigree do you have in yours?

Best wishes Mary

[workingcockers]

Hi mary - welcome to the forum!!

My dogs share many common ancestors to yours too.
With regard to breeding, I personally eye test and hip score, but unfor there are not many working cockers with either or both tests and there is a very negative attitude to testing among the fraternity. However, doesnt put me off but I have to say at this moment in time it is virtually impossible to find a stud dog that not only compliments a bitch but also has satisfactory tests..

If you want to drop me an email (from my profile) and tell me a bit about your dog and what you want and dont want to produce in a pup etc, Ill try and suggest some dogs for you to mull over.

Regards

Kirsten

[Penel]

Hi Mary - you did say any other opinions welcomed  . I would ask you - why are you going to breed from Bella ? you say you want a puppy from her - can you be sure you will be responsible for all her puppies, forever, and will have them back if there is a problem. Are you aware of the risks of breeding from her, that she might die while giving birth - sorry but it happens - have you thought about tail docking - if the pups are all going to working homes then fair enough - otherwise it is unethical for a vet to dock them if they are destined to be pet dogs.
How are you selecting the stud dog - do you have considerable knowledge of working cocker lines ? how are you improving the breed by breeding from her ?
My opinion would be that you should perhaps consider getting another pup from the same lines as Bella, rather than breeding from her yourself.  sorry to be blunt but I am so concerned about people breeding from their bitches because they want to keep one of the pups - IMO that is not a good enough reason.

Edited to say that working cockers don't have much coat for a reason so adding more feathering might not be a good idea, if you are intending on them being working dogs.  

[Gilly]

Where did the breeder of Tilly start, I'd be interested to know her reasons for breeding?

I do agree that breeding is not for the faint hearted   It's a huge commitment for the rest of the lives of any puppies produced.

[Miss Poohs]

Some distant relatives there of Vahri and Rufus.

Good stock  

[Penel]

Where did the breeder of Tilly start, I'd be interested to know her reasons for breeding?

I do agree that breeding is not for the faint hearted  It's a huge commitment for the rest of the lives of any puppies produced.

[snapback]153892[/snapback]

Was that comment addressed to me ?

[Workingspaniel]

Hi guys, thanks for your concern. Don't worry I'm not going head on and bloody minded into breeding from Bella. At present I'm just testing the water to see if she'd be suitable for such a task. Of course there are risks and problems associated with such a huge thing as breeding and I'm doing my best to educate myself thoroughly on all the risks involved before I make any serious decisions. However I believe that if bred correctly Bella could produce some absolutely smashing pups, with well adjusted temperaments and great working ability.
We are a well off family with a large london house and a substantial country residence too, so if we did breed from Bella and had to keep all the pups for some reason then we could cope, it wouldn't be ideal, but we'd be able to look after a large number of dogs. What I'm trying to say is that we aren't the sort of people who rush into something and then decide it's not for us. We research things fully before commiting ourselves 110% Finacially we can support at least one litter of pups and then keep them all on as adults as well quite easily. There is always at least one member of the family at home throughout the day as well which I think is ideal when you've got a dog as they're never left on their own for long lengths of time..
We have the time, the money and the comittment to embark on breeding from Bella. I feel that the only major obstacles are whether or not Bella is genetically suitable for breeding, whether Bella herself would be happy as a mum and whether Bella has got any heightened risks of complication in pregnancy and birth.  Ie: is there a family history of difficult births.

Any more information and advice greatfully recieved on this subject.

Best wishes Mary

[miche]

oooh how exciting, distant relatives of Bella!  Where did you get your cockers from?
We got Bella from a fantastic family up in Cumbria who only bred their gorgeous bitch once before getting her speyed. So hopefully, all being well with hip tests etc.. we'll be able to carry on the line.

Best wishes Mary

[snapback]153669[/snapback]

Hi again.  Mikey is from a breeder in Radstock, Somerset.  Both his parents were working cockers and kept as working dogs.  Mikey himself would I am sure make a lovely worker.  Herbie's mum is half worker and half show and his dad is a full working cocker.  He was bred in a family environment and raised with children and is a wonderful family dog and as far as I can see so far - shows absolutely no working ability whatsoever!! .  I got him very locally in Bristol, and all of the pups stayed local - a few staying within the breeders family.


They are both very different in temperment and compliment each other very well.  Mikey looks like a typical worker but Herbie looks more like the show type.  Both are lovely.

I haven't looked at their pedigree's for more similar names as we had to have our cat PTS last night  but will do tomorrow.

Would love to see some piccy's of your Bella, what colour is she?

[Workingspaniel]

Hiya,
so sorry to hear about your cat    It's always so hard to make those decisions for much loved pets, but I'm sure you did the right thing.

Your dogs sound lovely! Bella is a true worker though, she definitely had the working instinct from a very early age and naturally quarters the ground when out on a shoot. But like your dogs, she's a wonderful family pet as well, very soft and loves to be stroked and sat in front of the fire. I'm so glad that the lines she's from produce such lovely tempered dogs!  

Bella is a solid dark lemon bitch (a small patch of white on her chest but not enough to call her lemon and white)

I don't have any recent photos of her (must do some soon!) But here are some photos of her when she was younger:


Here she is at 12 weeks old


here she is at 10 months old lying on a bed rather naughtily!!    


here's a photo of her head, again at 10 months old.

She's now she's now 13 months old and has a more feathered coat and looks more grown up! She also acts more like a young lady and less like a little mischeif maker  

Best wishes Mary