Which colour???

[Jane S]

So howdo i know if she carries the "and white" gene, is it just going to be chance on her first litter or is somehere a clever person and could very simply explain what i would need to put her too to get which colours???

You won't know - that's what makes breeding so fascinating at times Nobody can tell you whether your bitch carries for "and white" or any other recessive colour/pattern nor can they guarantee that you won't get ticked puppies. Like Gilly says, you've got plenty of time to think about things although I would be paying far more attention to health issues than to colour which is of relatively minor importance. I notice you say you won't be using gene tests because you say they're not 100% accurate but you might find stud dog owners in a couple of years time refusing to let you use their dogs unless your bitch is tested

[Michele]

I would be paying far more attention to health issues than to colour which is of relatively minor importance.

My thoughts exactly, also health testing aside, worrying about your bitch for 9 weeks during her pregnancy and whelping, and then 8 weeks of care of the bitch & puppies after that, by the end of it you won't care what colour the pups are!

[sundune]

It's just i know a dog who was tested A1 and has sired puppies who developed prcd-PRA.
So as you might apreciate i don't trust that test at all. Maybe one day when it's 100% accurate then i will use that form of testing until then, no way.

[Colin]

It's just i know a dog who was tested A1 and has sired puppies who developed prcd-PRA.
So as you might apreciate i don't trust that test at all. Maybe one day when it's 100% accurate then i will use that form of testing until then, no way.

I've no idea how accurate the test is but nothing in life is absolute. As a pet owner I think it's fantastic that reputable breeders are testing - and I'd only ever now buy a puppy from a breeder that does test. What have you got to lose by testing, apart from money ? And let's face it, breeding should not be about money any more than it should be about concentrating on colour. Thank heavens that there are breeders out there that care enough about the breed to take all the steps that they can, to produce puppies of sound health and temperament  for pet owners like myself.

[sundune]

we've jumped topic.
any idea on what i mught get if i put my daisey to an Orange and white or even a BRT?

[tracey]

we've jumped topic.
any idea on what i mught get if i put my daisey to an Orange and white or even a BRT?

Jane replied earlier

You can never say for sure a lot depends on the colours both the sire and dam are carrying.

I would be interested to hear about the A1 dog that has produced affected puppies.. perhaps you could pm me privately?

Nothing in life is 100 %, but DNA testing has been used for many years to identify carriers of disease's and is infact accepted in a court of law as good evidence which is good enough for me

[sundune]

ok,
i am starting to feel like i am being slightly attacked here, i have not gone into health issues that i will be doing and my reasearch behind it as i was not asking about that. I am fully aware of such health issues, i bred cats for many years before and i was one of the most stringent in my breed on my testing. I was purely interested in asking about colour genetics as i have noticed there are some people on here who are really hot on the subject.

[Gilly]

As has already been said colour is one of the minor priorities when breeding  Health and temperament have to come first or you are doing the breed an injustice. Your bitch is still very young and may end up unsuitable for breeding, I'm not saying she isn't good enough but lot's of things can happen between now and the next 2 years.
My Liver roans litter sister definitely carries orange and when my bitch was mated to the same dog as her litter sister, mine didn't produce it. Now that doesn't mean that she doesn't carry it, she still might then again she might not have inherited the gene at all. I've heard of litters of repeat matings where the one colour has been produced in one litter and not in the next litter.
Why BRT are you hoping she carriers the "& Tan" gene?

[sundune]

I would be paying far more attention to health issues than to colour which is of relatively minor importance.

My thoughts exactly, also health testing aside, worrying about your bitch for 9 weeks during her pregnancy and whelping, and then 8 weeks of care of the bitch & puppies after that, by the end of it you won't care what colour the pups are!

hiya,
as i said i was just seeing if there was a clever person here.....which i know there are quite a few;) who knew colour genetics better than i.
I can assure you i know about all the health issues and temperament is a major priority for me, but that was not my question you see, i understand peoples concerns for the breed and for their dogs but rest assured i am aware of all of those factors, thats why i have not asked a question about it.
It was just did anyone know the possable colours my girl could potentially produce......
I could do it if it was a Maine coon cat i could tell you what colour that cat could potentially produce and to what colour stud to go to to get a paticular colour, but cockers nope aint got a clue

[Jane S]

I have already answered your question about what colours you might get if you mated your bitch to an orange/white etc - there is no way of knowing in advance since although she has recessive genes back in her pedigree, it does not mean she carries them herself. It's nothing to do with being clever or not clever - that's just how it is in Cockers Now if your bitch's mother was orange, then you'd know she carried the orange gene but you can't know when the colour is further back in the pedigree.

As for the comment about an Optigen tested A dog producing an afflicted, this was told to me a while ago and when I asked that person which dog and what the evidence was, they couldn't provide it It's one of those "myths" which is being circulated by those who don't want to test or who have tested and don't like the results they've got (this myth also seems to be particularly prevalent in the West Country for some reason). If people want to believe something, they will whether the evidence is there or not

[sportsmonki]

Hypothetically speaking, and very simplified for me to be able to understand  .

If sundune was to use an o/w (and her bitch did not carry orange) the resulting puppies would have phonotype b/r and genotype 1x b/r and 1 x o/w?

If then, that puppy was put to an o/w...the second generation could potentially produce o/w? (statistically 50% of the litter?)

[chelsea]

I can assure you i know about all the health issues and temperament is a major priority for me, but that was not my question you see, i understand peoples concerns for the breed and for their dogs but rest assured i am aware of all of those factors, thats why i have not asked a question about it.

Gilly only said that you could optigen test her now, just offering advice . And as said before nothing in life is 100% guarenteed! In my opinion if anything can be done to improve quality of life for any animal/person and these tests are available then everyone should make the most of them. Some people may dissagree obviously but people were only asking further questions regarding you breeding your bitch so it's not really off topic.
Nobody's attacking you, just trying to help

[Kim]

Ok guys, you have all made your point, just stick to the colour query now - before we put her off for good! 

[Cayley]

Something that may be worth looking into is the depth of blue roan in the 4 generations, are they dark blue, light blue or blue roan. I'm guessing by poor roan you mean light roan  .

[sundune]

Hiya,
well the Blue Roans that are in her pedigree are all fairly dark.
I suppose that is what a mean by a poor roan an exceptially light one that doesn't seem to be very roany just spotty and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and i am not keen on them.