Which colour???

[spanielcrazy]

There is no way to know what a given mating will produce in terms of color. I know many very knowledgable breeders who have bred the same lines for generations, are familiar with all the colors that everyone has produced and still can't predict what they will get in any given litter. The best they can do is say "Well, we could get this or that color based on what's been produced before.

Color, in the partis, is a crapshoot--less so in the solids--but thats part of the fun, the surprise factor!

The best I could say would be to use a proven sire who has consistently produced roans with the type of depth and markings you like and hope for the best!

[sundune]

Thats what i thought, possabilities are what i am after.

[spanielcrazy]

Research your pedigree, talk to as many of the breeders behind your bitch as you can, investigate the studs thoroughly...and be prepared to be both disappointed and pleasantly surprised!

[Jane S]

well the Blue Roans that are in her pedigree are all fairly dark.
I suppose that is what a mean by a poor roan an exceptially light one that doesn't seem to be very roany just spotty and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and i am not keen on them.

I think you've got some of our breeding in your girl's pedigree and there are certainly light blues & a black & white ticked behind there as that's what we started with (there are also a lot of light blues behind the Symbiosis bitch line). If you don't want light roans, you need to forget about using a broken colour (ie an orange & white) as you will not get dark roans using this colour. If you do a search, you should be able to find photos of quite a few of the well-known dogs behind your bitch so you can get a better idea of what lies behind her.

[sundune]

I've seen a few on the dams side of the pedigree as her grt grandmother is still alive and going strong.
I don't mind a light roan as long as it looks roan and one of those "well it could be..." It's just what you like isn't it. I know where i want to be heading it's just seeing if i can get there.
My breeder thinks i may be able to get orange roan, which would be lurvly. But one day i will have a black and white mmmmmmmm
I can post her pedigree if anyone wants to see it.
She is a lovely girl with the best temperament anyone could wish for and we'll see what the judges think next year. Untill then she is the best dog in the world!

[Jane S]

I know the sire's pedigree extremely well (he is a grandson of our dog) & saw him when he was 6 weeks old with his breeder (there were some very light roans in this litter incidentally). Trouble is you really cannot tell with the lighter roans or the "and ticked" just how much roaning or ticking they will have until they are adult. Also you might think you have a clear black & white or orange & white and then the ticking shows up later - our black & white bitch was pure black & white as a puppy but as a veteran, she's now quite heavily ticked. That's why I'm really urging you not to get so hung up on this colour & marking issue as it's not something you can control to the extent you might want to.

[sundune]

Well thats great i'm glad you know Sheila's boy, i understand your urging of colour and what time can do to a dog's colour, i don't think even if i put her to a b/w or o/w who was true for both i would hedge my bets that i may get one out a couple litters if i was lucky who was either b/w o/w. But an Orange roan would be nice. Is roan predominant over broken colour (b/w,o/w)?

[Jane S]

Yes roan is dominant over broken markings (and white) and over ticking. Your girl can only produce broken markings if she carries that gene - if she doesn't, it doesn't matter if you mate her to a black & white or orange & white, you'll never get an "and white" puppy because she hasn't got it to pass on. She may produce orange roan but only if she carries the gene for orange. It's all if's, but's and maybe's I'm afraid - that's particolours for you

[sundune]

So as "and white" is very sparce and a couple generations behind the "if" would surely be  not blooming likely? HAHAHAHAHA But there would be a chance that her pup could carry it. mmmm
I am not going to contiplate BRT that will just throw me way off balance.
So i think then i would like her to go to an Orange and white chap........i will be watching the shows now at all the little guys and my Daisey's breeder has said she will help me find a nice one too.
He'll have to be sooooooo very special if he wants to get near my girly!!!
Just so no-one jumps....as long as all the health issues are addressed and she proves to be eligable to become a mommy.

[sundune]

Hiya,
so starting on again, as i feel it is far better to have done exesive research than rushed.
I have been trawling the net for months now and still no sign of anyone having a black and white or Orange and white stud dog. I found one but he throws roans and only roans.
Has no one ever kept a "and white" boy or sold one as a future stud???
As i am very particular what i use it seems my choices are going to be exceptionaly limited!!
I am sorry to say but colour is important otherwise people would breed any colour to another. It may not be a priorty to some but at the moment as i can't find one over here it is to me!!
Obviously i need to state the obvious as people tend to jump on me, i would only use a dog that had a clear eye cert under the KC BVA scheme (minimum), excellant temperament and good to type.
Any one have any ideas or know of any such dog?

[Cob-Web]

I have been trawling the net for months now and still no sign of anyone having a black and white or Orange and white stud dog.

The net probably is not the best place to look - have you been in touch with your bitches breeder? Are you a member of your local Cocker Spaniel Club? Do you go to shows? 
From reading threads by experienced breeders on here, I would think that these are better options than hoping to find a suitable stud online 

[Gilly]

I'm sorry but I think as a potential breeder you are heading down the wrong track  why is the colour so important. I would also be concerned that you are stating KC/BVA (minimum) what about Optigen? I don't really know anyone anymore that ISN'T Optigen testing. I wouldn't use a non Optigen tested Stud Dog anymore than I would buy a puppy whose parents hadn't both been tested.
Are you looking to keep a B&W to show? It is one of the harder colours to show in my opinion.

[Cayley]

The trouble is that excellent examples of the less common colours are few and far between as you've found out. You are much more likely to find a suitable roan that carries 'and white' than you are to find a suitable 'and white'. You don't want to aim for 'and white' then get dissapointed when not only are there no 'and whites' but the roans aren't good show prospects. As has been said your minimum should be Optigen tested and KC/BVA tested  .

[sundune]

hiya,
maybe i should clarify a few things. As i said way back in this thread i was just asking about colours but once again i need to state about health checks ect.
When and if i choose to get my girl mated i will be as stringent with her and the dog as i was with my cats.
I expect the stud to have these health checks done and available for me to see; a current vaccination card, KC/BVA Clear certificate, FN if possable...(pref also)Optigen tested A as i will NOT use a carrier! Also i would be cheking that there has been no history of fading puppy or mass organ failure in a slighlty older puppy as we know this can be caused by the Herpes virus. Also proof that the dog has not had breeding endorsements placed on him and that he is/has not been used without authority of his breeder.
My bitch will have the same and any other health, blood tests my bitch can have under advisement from langford house.

clearer now???
So does anyone have any clues about a "and white" dog.
Peta and precious Daisey

[Jane S]

If anyone wants to contact Peta with recommendations for stud dogs (remember he must be clear "and white" not ticked and have all the health requirements she has listed), please contact her privately as a public forum is not the best place to post details of stud dogs. I will close this thread now as it seems to have run it's course.