Chocolate and cream cockers ?

[Colin]

I recently came across an unusually coloured cocker in the park. The man walking it described it as chocolate and cream, a colour I've never heard of before. The dog was predominantly choc but with a creamy coloured undercarriage and cream facial markings similar to the tan bits on a black and tan. The man told me there were only 16 or 60 ( I couldn't quite make out which  ) cockers of this colour in the country. I thought it looked really attractive.

Is this a recognised cocker colour or would it be described as "mismarking" due to breeding between a solid and a parti ? Are there any other rare and unusual colour combinations that are recognised as "traditional" cocker colours ?                    

[Jane S]

There's no such colour as chocolate & cream I'm afraid (sounds tasty though ) You can have chocolate & tan (a solid like black & tan) or you can have chocolate roan, chocolate roan & tan or chocolate & white or chocolate, white & tan (all particolours) - all these are quite rare but I shouldn't think anyone knows for sure how many of each of these colours there are in the country Next time you see this chap, you could perhaps whip your camera out & take a pic - I'd be interested in seeing this dog as I've never seen one marked like this before. Am assuming it was perhaps a mismark or a choc & tan with v pale tan markings                    

[Colin]

I think it was with a dog walker and he didn't seem too sure about his description of "choc and cream" to be honest. I couldn't see how he'd possibly know how many others in the country there were either.Unfortunatley I didn't get too close to the dog as I had one eye on Misty who was sniffing about for twigs to munch on. From a distance the "cream" bits looked more blonde to me, a similar colour to Jimmy's old quiff but slightly darker maybe. Perhaps it was a choc and white in need of a bath ? Do they have the white markings above the eyes etc  and a solid choc back though or are they marked with patches similar to a black and white ?

I will keep my eyes peeled for another glimpse of this rare beast and have my camera at the ready !                    

[Jane S]

Sounds more like a choc & tan the more I hear as the tan varies quite a lot in depth of colour. There are some pics at http://w1.457.telia.com/~u45710738/livertan1.htm, not v good pics for the most part unfortunately plus one is a choc roan & tan                    

[LindaW]

I call them liver and tan and I have one called Pippa.  Will try and post a photo of her - she is PAT dog (don't know how to do the photos!!)
Linda                    

[Jane S]

I prefer to call them livers too but I think we're fighting a losing battle on that as most people seem to call them chocolate nowadays

There is a photo of Pippa on Linda's website at http://freespace.virgin.net/shandardel.coc...rs/present.html - hope you don't mind me posting that link Linda                    

[Jenney]

Mmmm chocolate & cream, I'm with you on that one Jane, sounds delicious                    

[Colin]

Jane, I think you are right, the dog I saw probably was a liver and tan with a very light shade of tan colouring. It did seem to have more of a colour contrast than the pics on that link though.

Linda......you really do have some beautiful cockers........in particular Lolly looks so cool.

Mmmm chocolate & cream, I'm with you on that one Jane, sounds delicious

This is probably why chocolate seems to be taking over from liver as the most used description. I'm sure most people prefer eating chocolate to liver ............the mere mention of the word "liver" makes me baulk at the thought of all those disgusting school meals I endured many moons ago !

On cocker colour descriptions.............why do some people use "reds" and others "goldens" ? For his first 6 or so months I always referred to Jimmy as a red until I realised most people used the term golden ,so I switched. It's all most confusing !                    

[Mike]

Liver is still used a lot in the springer world - I dont think any springers would be called chocolate and white   Maybe thats part of the reason why chocolate is becoming more frequent - to more easily distinguish these two breeds? Just a thought anyways                      

[Mike]

Just to add there's a lovely picture of a liver roan and tan (I think!) entered in the cyber show - Cassie, in Prettiest Bitch - a very striking looking dog                      

[Jane S]

Liver tends to be the term genetics people use when they talk about this brown colour in dogs. It's the same gene in all the various breeds that have this colouring but tradition sort of dictates what we call that colour, so we have chocolate labradors & chocolate or liver Cockers but it's always liver Springers, Field Spaniels or Pointers & brown American Cockers

Colin, red & gold are actually 2 distinct colours though it can be tricky telling the two apart sometimes Golds are a paler colour than the reds. I'd say Jimmy was a red from his photos but who knows                    

[Colin]

I would say then that Jimmy is a red rather than gold as his back is really dark coloured.......the only darker ones I've come across personally have been working cockers with really dark red glossy coats, but you don't tend to see many reds/golds here, mostly blue roans for some reason. I'd say at least 75% of the cockers I've seen in London are blues................. I've noticed that nearly all the new puppies on the forum seem to be blue too. (Mine included of course  )

I do remember the day I got Jimmy, his breeder pointed to a tiny dark patch on him and said that this was the colour he'd predominantly be as an adult.........even though as a puppy he was mostly very golden . At the time I thought how could she possibly know, but she certainly knew her stuff as she was proved right. Strangely enough this patch was around an area of his stomach where he is now really blonde ! I guess it takes years of experience to really understand the minefield of colour genetics...........and there's me in my ignorance not knowing the correct colour name of my own dog !                      

[Anonymous]

rotf COlin, I was with you there, I was calling Jessie a parti colour ....remember???..lol..she is in fact a solid...all far to confusing for my blonde bits                      

[LindaW]

I prefer to call them livers too but I think we're fighting a losing battle on that as most people seem to call them chocolate nowadays
There is a photo of Pippa on Linda's website at http://freespace.virgin.net/shandardel.coc...rs/present.html - hope you don't mind me posting that link Linda

I agree with your Jane - I did have a liver and white springer originally so I suppose I carried on from there!  Don't mind about you posting the link at all.  I would just like to mention that in that picture, Pippa is soaking wet as she had been swimming in a river so her tan parts are not clearly visible
Linda                    

[KellyP]

oooo I always thought that reds and golds were the same thing .. although of course in different shades ... reds being common name the darker ones and then golds for the lighter colours.
My mum's cocker is classed as a golden, and she is quite pale in comparision to Jimmy, almost kinda Jimmy's ex-quiff colour - but I thought they were the same genetic strand so to speak - i love this genetics stuff     just wish i could understand most of it !!