Home reared or Not?

[Cathy]

Hi, My partner and I are currently loking for a cocker puppie. Please can someone tell us of the difference between puppies reared in the back yard in kennels, or of those reared in the home. I am a little concerned as i do not know what to expect from either, and yet the breeders are always telling me there puppies are on or thr other. any help would be appeciated                    

[shonajoy]

Hi, My partner and I are currently loking for a cocker puppie. Please can someone tell us of the difference between puppies reared in the back yard in kennels, or of those reared in the home. I am a little concerned as i do not know what to expect from either, and yet the breeders are always telling me there puppies are on or thr other. any help would be appeciated

Hi Alan, my pup was home reared, which meant he'd had experience of loud noises like the hoover, kids(breeder had 3) and was socialised with a lot of people.

I think the problem is if you get a puppy from a puppy farmer - you see adverts in papers saying choice of - and then 15 different breeds, or can deliver- again a bad sign. You should be able to see your pup and the mum in a home environment, and making sure they are KC registered means the bitch isn't bred ALL the time purely for profit like some unscrupulous puppy farmers do, KC registration means that only a litter a year can be registered.(Up to a certain amount, I think 3 but don't quote me on that). Also, you avoid inherited defects that can be very costly to fix - our pup unfortunately has a cataract which will cost over £800 to fix, we were lucky and our breeder refunded us, but if this happened with a puppy farm you'd have little chance of that.

I've only been here a short time, so I'm sure some of the experienced members of the board will be able to advise you more on this, but welcome to the board,

Shona                    

[Cathy]

Thank you for that reply.

This breeder has come recomended from a contact via the kennel club, who uses his dogs to mate with. I would not contemplate buying from a puppy farm, i have to say i didn't acutally think it was a farm. i am going to view the puppies next week. the breeder has been very strict with instructions, and asked me a lot of questions.                    

[*Jay*]

Hi Alan,

If the breeder asks a lot of questions, thats a good sign  It means they care about their puppies and the homes that they will be going to. Two of my cockers were reared in kennels and one was home reared - and you can tell the difference :wink:  Vegas was used to children and all the various hustle and bustle of a household and with all the socialisation I gave him, he is a very confident dog(but not in a bolshy way :wink: ). Dallas was reared in kennels and while he has a fantastic temperament, he is not quite as confident as Vegas and is a bit more wary about new things. Hopefully, if the pups you are going to visit are reared in kennels, the breeder will still have spent time socialising them. And don't be afraid to ask them either - I'm sure they will appreciate that you have the pups best interest at heart. When you see the pups in either enviroment, just make sure that they are quite confident, happy to see you and not hanging back as this can be a sign of a very nervous pup. Let us know how you get on next week                    

[Jane S]

KC registration isn't a guarantee that the puppies have been bred by a reputable breeder. Plenty of puppy farmers use the KC system I'm afraid The KC does not allow commercial breeders to advertise their litters on their Puppy list which means that the breeders on the list must have fewer than 5 litters a year. Commercial breeders cannot register more than one litter from a bitch during a 12 month period but non-commercial breeders can! Confusing isn't it?

As Shona says, "home-reared" is a term used by all sorts of puppy outlets, from highly reputable breeders to large scale commercial breeders. It basically means that pups have been reared on the premises and not bought in for resale by a dealer. Ideally, puppies should be reared in the house so they get used to all sorts of household noises & meet as wide a variety of people as possible. However, that is not to say that puppies kept outside for some of the time means the breeder is not reputable - what counts is the care taken over the puppies & the efforts made to socialise them. There is some info on how to spot a reputable breeder in our FAQ section here :http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewt...opic.php?t=2019

Make sure that any litter you look at comes from eye-tested parents & don't believe any excuses eg that only show breeders eye-test so they can charge more for their pups (a COL member was told this not so long ago by one breeder)                    

[Magic Star]

Hi Alan

Welcome to COL if you are looking for tips and advise on getting a cocker and bringing up a puppy, then you have come to the right place!  I would echoe what Shona has said really   When we were searching for our pup Indie, I would only consider home reared pups.  Again as Shona said they are more used to noises and kids and people in general.  Its a good sign that the breeder is asking you questions, equally feel free to ask the breeder any questions you may have too!  Most reputable breeders would make it a condition that if for whatever reason, you can no longer keep the pup/dog than you return it to them, this type of condition I feel this offers reassurance that the breeder has the pups best interest at heart!  

There is a whole section on the message board in Q and A's that covers this in full, it makes interesting reading and if you are new to dogs, its a must!!

Best of luck and keep us posted

EDITED TO SAY, Gills and Janes posts where not there when I typed this!   Sorry for any repetitions!!                    

[Magic Star]

Make sure that any litter you look at comes from eye-tested parents & don't believe any excuses eg that only show breeders eye-test so they can charge more for their pups (a COL member was told this not so long ago by one breeder)

I would second this!!  My breeder was a first time breeder and to be honest she was brilliant!!  However, Indies dad was eye tested, but when I queried about her mum, I got told that as her mum was from the same lineage as the dad, it wasn't necessary :?   I accepted this as I didn't know any better and had already fell for little Indie, however another member of COL did say that she still should have been tested, so this is something I do worry about and if/when we get another I will make sure that both parents are tested.                    

[PennyB]

Personally I wouldn't get a pup from someone either who's just having one litter as they think think their cocker is cute and it'd be such a shame for her not to have one litter before she's spayed (and they've met someone on their walks who's got a lovely cocker boy so why not)!                    

[shonajoy]

Personally I wouldn't get a pup from someone either who's just having one litter as they think think their cocker is cute and it'd be such a shame for her not to have one litter before she's spayed (and they've met someone on their walks who's got a lovely cocker boy so why not)!

Can I ask why? If they are responsible, and have the room, and both parents are clear of diseases?                    

[*Jay*]

I think what Penny is trying to get across here(and correct me if I'm wrong) is that in these sort of cases, there will most probably be no reserach done on pedigrees to see if the two dogs are compatible. I have overheard a few people talking about mating their bitches with a nice looking dog along the road and when questioned about their pedigrees, they don't have a clue :roll:  The chances are that the dogs won't have had the necessary health tests done either.  

My Vegas is from a pet bitch but her breeder helped her by checking over the pedigrees to see if the two dogs would complement one another.  So, I'm not necessarily against pet bitches being bred from as long as they still do the necessary research/tests and have the back-up and help from a knowledgable person and don't just go with the first dog they come across :wink:                    

[Magic Star]

Personally I wouldn't get a pup from someone either who's just having one litter as they think think their cocker is cute and it'd be such a shame for her not to have one litter before she's spayed (and they've met someone on their walks who's got a lovely cocker boy so why not)!

  Indies mum was a pet cocker but her dad is a show dog, Indies mums owner did a lot of research with the help of Indies dads owner, who has her own kennels etc.  Indies mum was from the same lineage as her dad, where breeding for health/temperament is of paramount importance!!   I agree with you to a point about maybe just breeding a pet with another pet, and both not having much information or breeding background :?  But having said that, all breeders have to start somewhere :wink:  as long as they go into it with their eyes wide open and take the guidance from other breeders and their vet and of course are doing it for reasons other that £'s then I can't see what the problem is :wink:

Personaly I would much much prefer to get a dog that has been brought up in a loving home environment and had the absolute best start in life with regards to socialisation/weaning etc, then to maybe get a pup from a breeder who keeps the pups in kennels outside :?   Just my personal opinion on my experience with Indie, you would not believe the diet my breeder had her on, it must have cost her a fortune!  Yes she was first time breeder, I did have a concern with the eye test, but other than this, she gave those pups the absolute best start in life  Having said about  her mum not being eye tested, if she was eye tested it still does not guarantee that Indies eyes will be fine, so I am not going to lose to much sleep over that :wink:   Indie has such a lovely temperament, she is brilliant with the kids and other dogs, she is not nervous or too pushy

If I get another dog, and the lady was breeding another litter (which she isn't) I would have absolotely no hesitation in going back to her  I found her through the KC, she did no advertising whatsoever and asked me as many questions as I did her   But then I can see your point of view also, for every one good novice breeder I can imagine there will be a bad one too :?                    

[PennyB]

Yes Gill you got it in one. I agree breeders have to start somewhere but I'm talking about your one off litter just for the hell of it! I have heard so many times how they're going to mate with the dog down the road just because they're bitch is cute (I didn't know cuteness was a basis for breeding sensibly) and then get the bitch spayed.

Sometimes they think that a bitch must have a litter before they are spayed as its cruel not to.

They also have this idea about getting families just like theirs to take on the pups until I point out what about if they need to rehome the pup—answer, oh that'll never happen (because they don't believe cockers ever end up in rescue).

Just because its home breeding doesn't mean that this way is responsible breeding if the 'breeder' isn't bothered who they mate their dog with and don't give the new owner any back up of help.                    

[Jane S]

Just because its home breeding doesn't mean that this way is responsible breeding if the 'breeder' isn't bothered who they mate their dog with and don't give the new owner any back up of help.

Absolutely right - whilst everyone has to start somewhere, there's a huge difference between the first time breeder who takes months researching pedigrees & finding out as much as they about what breeding involves & the type that just breed on impulse using the dog down the road or the dog they met in the park last week :roll: They don't have a clue about hereditary diseases or even basic colour genetics sometimes! I have had stud enquiries from pet bitch owners who do not even know what their dog's pedigree is when I ask about it & who don't see the need to bother with eye-testing because they only want to breed pet Cockers for their friends :roll: Quite depressing really                    

[Magic Star]

Absolutely right - whilst everyone has to start somewhere, there's a huge difference between the first time breeder who takes months researching pedigrees & finding out as much as they about what breeding involves & the type that just breed on impulse using the dog down the road or the dog they met in the park last week :roll: They don't have a clue about hereditary diseases or even basic colour genetics sometimes! I have had stud enquiries from pet bitch owners who do not even know what their dog's pedigree is when I ask about it & who don't see the need to bother with eye-testing because they only want to breed pet Cockers for their friends :roll: Quite depressing really

Yes Jane it is quite depressing I agree with you, I know the kind you are talking about, I myself have had people ask me already, if I intend to have a litter of pups from Indie, just because she is cute :roll:   :cry:  Of course she is cute, all cockers are, but I have no intentions to breed from her, I will leave that to the professionals  It seems though thats its exactly these people who would go and buy from the BIG commercial shops, for want of a better word :?  I think its just down to a lack of knowledge and education on the whole buying a puppy subject, thats why its good that breeders like yourself and other members of the board, can offer information and advise on message boards, such as this   Hopefully with more and more people having access to the internet, we can start getting through to a wider section of potentional puppy owners                    

[Luvlylady]

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