Orange Roan or Golden?

[Wendi]

Hi, please excuse my ignorance but I would appreciate some advice.  I went today to visit some cocker puppies, they were two weeks old.  The breeder had advertised them as orange roan, however they looked golden all over with some white patches on their chest.  One was dark golden and the other two were very light.  Is this how roans start of?  Thanks

[*Lucy*]

First of all the breeder should not be letting people view the pups at 2 weeks old - they are too young!

My experience of Orange Roans are that when they are tiny they are nearly all white then start getting orange patches on their bodies, face and ears as they get older.

When i first saw a picture of Honey aged 3 weeks she had a white body with orange ears and a few orange patches on her head and face - as she got older patches started to appear on her body.

[Jane S]

Orange roans start off very pale all over - at 2 weeks, they would still look quite white but you may be able to see the orange flecks coming through and some orange patches on the body (and the ears would be a pale orange too). It sounds like the litter you saw may have been mismarked golden pups if they had quite large patches of white but were otherwise one colour all over? Be careful, if the breeder doesn't know what colour their pups are, you have to wonder what else they don't know

[Sharon]

This was my Flora at 2 weeks old...




This is her now, with Petal....

[Cayley]

Like others have said they sound like mismarked golds.
Have a read of this link http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=2019.0 about finding reputable breeders, it gives you a good idea of what to look for  .

[Wendi]

Thanks for your advice but what does mismatched mean?  Isn't golden a true colour?  Again excuse my ignornance

[emilyjw]

It's where a solid and parti have been mated, resulting in this case with a gold dog with too many white patches.

I would also be worried that you have been able to see 2 week old puppies 

[Wendi]

So should you never breed from a parti and a solid?  Its a minefield isn't it?

[emilyjw]

absolutely, the link someone gave about finding a reputable breeder is a good place to start.

We have a show cocker who has some working cocker in her relatives and she doesn't have the big fluffy coat... we didn't even know there was a working cocker when we started 

It's good to check that relevant health checks have been done too

[jools]

Here's a link to some photos posted by jakesmum
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=33504.msg456197#msg456197

I think she was told he was red roan - not an actual colour. She is now pretty sure that he is a mismarked golden. Having met him in the fur I must say he is very 

I agree that 2 weeks is very young to be allowed to view a litter

[Pammy]

Another warning sign is that the breeder has advertised them. If this is in a paper or on certain internet sites then you might want to check more closely. Reputable breeders are unlikely to be advertising a litter.

[Tasha]

there are some good posts on colours.  Is the pup coming with KC registration?? Do you have details of the sire and dam??

It worth checking with people on here if they are show or working lines or a mixture of the two, health checks are a must if the breeder hasn't bothered to do the necessary checks (Hips, FN, PRA etc) then it might be worth looking else where for a puppy. Are you getting six weeks free insurance???  You should be able to with KC registration but also through some insurers like PetPlan.

The kennel club has a useful article called 'Where not to buy a puppy' that might be worth a read.... http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/208

 

[Wendi]

The pups are coming KC registered, have seen mum and dad's papers and in the flesh.  Dad is orange roan mum is chocolate both have good pedigrees, however one is working and one is show.  Does this make any difference?

[Helen]

I would be concerned - not only are they showing you puppies at a very very early age, but they appear to be breeding just to get 'colours'.  They are doing nothing by breeding particolour show to solid working cocker to enhance either strain, show or working.

and somewhat irrelevant really, but because of the working side this pup could also be classified as Lemon or Lemon roan....!

Sorry to be blunt.

[emilyjw]

It would be tricky to know if your pup would be like a show or working cocker and they can be quite different, in terms of coat, looks and exercise needs/stimulation needed.

Bracken has some working cocker in her pedigree and as a result has a very short coat, so if you are hoping for a fluffy colour steer clear!

I think I would try and find a different breeder to be honest.