Breeders

[Wendi]

Hi everyone, I listened to your advice and did some phoning about to find a breeder in my area.  There was one name that appeared a few times and I was told she was the top breeder and so I telephoned her and arranged to go and view a litter.  Now I am more confused than ever!
The puppies were outside in a kennel/pen which I was told was cleaned out by the kennel hands (there are usually 9 but 1 is of sick!).  This made it sound like a puppy farm to me but she is a "top breeder"!  How do they get regular human interaction/touch and get used to household noises etc if they're kept outside?  Also I was informed that if I didn't like the litter the next batch were due next month so I could put a depositdown as one of them was unsold.  Why would i buy a puppy I haven't seen?
 

[JenSam]

When we went to see Sam his mum and the litter were outside in kennels and having done my research on this breeder she is a reputable breeder. 

Were you recommended by your local cocker spaniel club to this person?

[Sheryl]

Maybe it is not a puppy farm but a commercial breeder instead?

[Wendi]

I dont doubt that they are a reputable breeder but the scale of breeding and the lack of human interaction doesn't sit well with me.       Maybe I'm wrong. 

[Cazzie]

Difficult one  4 out of 5 of my dogs are kennel bred dogs and have been raised as puppies in kennels. All from super breeders and all very well looked after. I havent found really any set backs with them being reared outside compared to Otter who was home bred and raised with a large family of children and dogs inside and had plenty of inter action with children. Maybe different if you were getting an older dog you may have issues like I have with Sweepie not being as confident around children when I got her as she had never seen a child in the 14 months before I got her, but she is getting there now 

All dogs are different and within a litter you will always have the confindent ones and the less confident ones regardless of how much interaction they have from humans and I saw that with Otters litter. Once you bring home an 8 week old puppy from a good experienced caring  kennel breeder that has looked after their puppies well, I cant see you having any problems what so ever with that dog 

[Gilly]

Wendi, where are you based?

[Wendi]

I'm in Lanarkshire in Scotland.  Halfway between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

[Jane S]

I dont doubt that they are a reputable breeder but the scale of breeding and the lack of human interaction doesn't sit well with me.       Maybe I'm wrong. 

If you're not happy with what you saw, then walk away and look for a smaller hobby breeder In the old days, the big show kennel was the norm (breeders were often wealthy land owners who could afford to employ large numbers of staff) but these days, there are only a handful of these big show kennels left. They are usually owned by extremely knowledgable people who have devoted their whole lives to their dogs but of course, keeping such large numbers of dogs is not very PC these days (and not something many modern show breeders would want to do anyhow).

I'd also add that it's not unusual for breeders to take bookings for pups not born yet - many good breeders have waiting lists of people prepared to wait for a puppy from them, even if a litter is not due for several months.

[Cob-Web]

Even breeders who breed "ethically" have different ways of doing so.

Ethical breeders motives will be to improve the breed, they ensure they take health and temperament into account, they don't over-breed or force a bitch to have repeated litters, and they make sure their pups are well socialised before they go to their new homes. It is harder to achieve this if the dogs are kennelled, but it is by no means impossible   

If the breeders ticks all the boxes in terms of being reputable, then it is your decision whether you are happy with kennel raised dogs/pups.   I prefer home raised dogs, but if I couldn't find a litter that was raised indoors, then I would compromise on the kennelling, rather than compromising the health checks 

I wouldn't necessarily take the word of the breed club representative as indicative of reputable, as they may mean "top breeder" to mean successful in the show ring; occasionally, a blind eye is turned to some less ethical breeding practice 

[JaspersMum]

The first breeder we went to see when we were looking for a pup had a similar set up to you, the pup that was left from the particular litter hadn't been socialised at all and hardly handled & seemed to be frightened of the breeder - we walked away although on paper the pup was better bred than Louie who we ended up with.

Lou's breeder had at least got the pups in the house, he was used to the washing machine, hoover and being handled and was a more confident dog as a result.  She might not have researched the breed genetics as much as breeder 1 (although I wouldn't be 100% no.1. had either) but I have no doubt we picked the right pup.

Sometimes gut instinct has to show you too.

Edited to add - in line with Janes comments below, if the pup hadn't looked so frightened and def unsocialised, the kennel itself would not of stopped us having her.

[Jane S]

Not all kennel pups are unsocialised - think I ought to stress that as we bought a kennel reared pup at 6 months old from a well-known Scottish kennel (probably the one Wendi visited ) and her temperament was second to none. She's no longer with us (this was some years ago) but she's left her legacy in the lovely natures our current dogs have Of course Wendi needs to be careful and if she's not happy with this breeder, then she should look elsewhere but the fact this is a large show kennel does not itself mean the dogs are not socialised.

[lolajays]

Maudie had been kept in a kennel for the six months before we had her! The owners bred Labs and she was kept with the pups. I couldnt have wished for a more social dog. SHe just loves people. However every dog is going to be different. When we visited her she ran up to me straight away, I picked her up and she kindly gave my face a wash. I know then she would be fine with strangers. She is also fantastic with children but we took them on their word for that. It could have been a different story but fortunately for us it wasnt.
In the future should we have another Cocker I would travel the country to a breeder I know I could trust. We were very lucky once, it could have all been very different. Anyway the reason for my posting was the fact that she is a very social little girl who spent her first 6 months in a kennel!! 

[*Adele*]

We're like Tracey in that Chloe was 6 months old when we got her and had been kept in a kennel, she had never seen children, hadn't been on the lead before and only been in the car to go to the vets so wasn't too keen! We had absolutely no problems at all with her, fine on the lead, great with kids and not at all worried about the car! Would definitely go back to the breeder we got her from and also to the breeder who recommended this breeder to us who works in a similar way! 

[*Jay*]

Not all kennel pups are unsocialised - think I ought to stress that as we bought a kennel reared pup at 6 months old from a well-known Scottish kennel (probably the one Wendi visited ) and her temperament was second to none.

2 of my current dogs are from the same kennel and, like Jane has experienced, I cannot fault them temperament-wise. I will admit to being a bit taken aback the first time I visited  but I wouldn't think twice about returning there for another pup.  Of course, if things don't sit right with you, then walk away and continue your search elsewhere.

[*jean*]

do they do all the health checks?