German Pedigree

[Henshallboys]

in the first pic she looked like a worker to me, but the other pictures she looked more like a show type.

She looked absolutely stunning though   

We have a golden boy and he's not a grump at all - in fact the complete opposite - I have never heard him grumble in the whole 2 years I have had him......... 

Bracken only became a grumble and snappy boy when he got to about 10....he bit poor old Lucy a few times and he didn't like children much in his old age.  We have known a few old golden boys who became like this.

[Henshallboys]

As Bugatti said, the difference between working type and show type only exists in UK.

I rather think she wasn't a "pure bred" cocker.

I will have to dig out her pedigree papers she has a German pedigree and we have been told it was from a good line

[Mazame]

As Bugatti said, the difference between working type and show type only exists in UK.

Not true actually - the difference exists in other countries too such as they USA (where they are known as Field Cockers). British-bred Working Cockers seem to be quite popular overseas too as recent exports to other countries include the US, Australia, Scandinavia, Netherlands and Belgium (to name but a few)

Lucy looks show-type to me and I don't see any sign of her not being pure bred. Not all show-type Cockers look the same - you get a lot of variation in type just as you do in working lines

In France you see few working cockers but they are British bred, mated to French working lines and then, after a few generations, you have a "show dog". Our French working lines aren't not so different from show lines. Just little details. We don't have such a great difference between types with our lines.

I was wondering if she was "non pure bred" because of her thin face on the 1st pic. And when you buy a dog in a pet shop, you don't always exactly know where he comes from.

I will have to dig out her pedigree papers she has a German pedigree and we have been told it was from a good line

I would be interested in having a look at it. 

[Henshallboys]

I have Lucy's pedigree info but as my German is not very good I don't fully understand it but here goes if anyone can help I obviousley know the basics like sex and colour etc:

The registration authority is BRV  ( Bayerischer Rassehunde-verein e.v )
Breed : Cocker spaniel
Name : Schiny vom Englisch Garten
Sex : Hundin
Breeder: Hilde Limbrunner, Moos
Colour : Rot
Stud Book Number : 92 37036
Date of Birth : 4 Mar 1992

Sire :  Amor Zum Vistal-Haus  19 Sep 1998    88-12386 IR JGV
Dam :  Teby vom Englisch Garten   22 May 1985    85- 2262

It also gives grandparents and great grandparents .
It is stamped and signed and dated 15 May 1992  - BRV Sitz Freilassing HAUPTZUCHTBUCH

 

[Mazame]

Could you write information here ? I am used to reading German pedigrees and I unterstand this. I learned German at school but I forgot the whole thing. 

"Rot" means "red"
"Schwarz" means "black"
" Schwarz mit loh" means "black and tan"
"schimmel" means "roan"
"blau" means "blue"
"weiss" means "white"

For example, when you have "orsch", it means "orange schimmel" (orange roan).

There are several stud books in Germany but I don't know this one.

[djangonut]

In some continental countries,  before gundogs can be confirmed as having won a field trial champion title,  no matter how many trials they have won,  they must go to a show,  and be awarded at least a "good" or "very good" from a breed show judge.  This may explain why some some continental working cockers look more like show cockers,  than British working cockers,  most of whom look different,  (but just as beautiful!), from their show cousins.  It is a shame that there is such a divergence in type between show cockers and working cockers here in England, especially as they originally all came from the same stock!  One of the top spaniel field trial handlers in France has a cocker kennel which includes top English show lines.  He maintains the dual purpose ideal of breeding good looking cockers that will also work. 

John

[Mazame]

One of the top spaniel field trial handlers in France has a cocker kennel which includes top English show lines.  He maintains the dual purpose ideal of breeding good looking cockers that will also work. 

John

If we are talking about the same breeder, he also owns Brtish bred working type cockers.

[Henshallboys]

The pics of Lucy do not really show how delicate and small she was......my two working cocker pups now 5 1/2 months  (pic attached) remind me of her a lot. Our old show cocker Bracken was always a totally different build and his features very different.  The pups Bramble & Beri have the same energy as Lucy......Bracken never was a playful pup. 



 

[Sarah_S]

Pic is of our two old cocker's , Lucy who died last summer aged 15 on the right and Bracken our grumpy old boy who died last month aged 13.

Lucy was purchased in a little pet shop in the middle of Berlin......she has a good German pedigree and was an absolute darling with a perfect nature and brilliant good health apart from a pancreatic attack when she was about 12.  She was as bouncy as a pup up to a few days before she died.  My question is do you think she was a working cocker ? it is hard to tell from her pedigree papers, she was always a lovely petite little lady and a lovely light gold colour with a lttle white on her feet chest and nose. It is only now that we have two working cocker pups that I see a resemblance to Lucy.

My husband was an Army Officer and we were posted in Berlin, he went past the pet shop each day and it broke his heart to see her.....one night he came home with her under his jacket, she was tiny and about 7 months old.  It was hard to put her in quarantine when we returned to uk.....we then got Bracken from a breeder in Salisbury....he was always a chunky boy and comes from good show stock.  He became a grumpy old boy as he got older as do many show solid golden boys !!!

Oh ...Lucy's German pedigree does reveal that her father was also her grandfather !!!! is this common practice ?

 

This is quite an old thread, but I'll answer it anyway.

It is not uncommon that you have inbreeding in the pedigree. Its probably not that unusual in the UK either.

They are definately showtype of German standards.


Bugatti and Mazame, you must stand corrected. We also have the difference in type in Scandinavia, mostly Denmark and Sweden. I'm not sure about Finland though.

In DK the types are totally separeted and you normally cannot cross the two lines due to the demand of having at least a "good" on shows if you want to have a pedigree litter.

Due to the demand on having at least a "good" the working type totally split from the kennel club and now have their own association, but are unable to compete in the same competitions as the one with pedigree from DKK/FCI.