Hip Scoring Working cockers?

[JohnW]

Well I have decided to get my working cocker dog bailey hip scored, he goes to the vets on monday at 8.30. To say I am bricking it is an understatement. It seems we need to get more working cockers hip scored to really give an average score for them. My decision seems to have been met with differences of opinions as many working breeders think its an uneccesary process, but others think I am adding to vital information needed to give a better understanding of them. I must admit I am a relative newcomer and convert to the whole health screening package and partly due to COL as well as reading and talking to more experienced breeders I am now gonna go the whole hog so to speak. I will in time score my other dogs but at 170 quid a pop its gonna take about a year to get them all through. Hopefully he will come in with a good score. But i am quite nervous about the results.

[babushka]

Good for you, I will also get all the relavant tests done if my little chap is used for stud. Hope you get a good result. Pauline

[GillSarge]

Yes, good for you.  Since joining COL there seems to be loads to learn, especially on working cockers.  I too will take a while to get them all hip scored, as 3 that can be used for stud.

[hollyd443]

Hiya,

Great to hear he is being tested - hope all goes well today 

My Working Cocker (Rio)'s parents were hip scored. As a comparison, the Mum was 4:5 and the Dad 3:5


Holly

[Helen]

Let us know how you get on, having heard of a stud dog with 'allegedly' dodgy hips I applaud the testing.

My idea of good breeding for working cockers is breeding from a dog that is 'fit for purpose', ie one that is proven in the field or excels in agility etc, one who is of exemplary temperament and of course one that will 'improve the breed' and has passed all the necessary health checks.

Too many pet working cockers are being bred in my honest opinion (just because they have a pedigree and are nice looking dogs - aren't they all  )and this to me is doing nothing to enhance the breed 

[Nicola]

Let us know how you get on, having heard of a stud dog with 'allegedly' dodgy hips I applaud the testing.

My idea of good breeding for working cockers is breeding from a dog that is 'fit for purpose', ie one that is proven in the field or excels in agility etc, one who is of exemplary temperament and of course one that will 'improve the breed' and has passed all the necessary health checks.

Too many pet working cockers are being bred in my honest opinion (just because they have a pedigree and are nice looking dogs - aren't they all  )and this to me is doing nothing to enhance the breed 

Couldn't agree more... funny that   Far too many people think that just because they have a nice dog with a nice temperament, nice looks and a nice pedigree that they should use it for breeding when probably 90% of the dogs out there fit those criteria.

On the hip scoring, Rodaidh was scored last year and other than being a bit groggy after the GA it all went pretty smoothly. It was a fairly long wait for the results though (about 5 weeks).

[wrenside]

Good luck with the hip scoring, fingers crossed that all the boys being tested have healthy hips so they won't go lame early on in life

I personally wouldn't advocate using working cockers that aren't actually used for gun dog work as studs though  (this might just be me being old fashioned but...)
For me working cockers are bred to be hunting, flushing, and retrieving dogs, and this is what has kept the working cocker such a healthy and intelligent breed. I take great pleasure in working mine, and think that there is no better all round breed for the job in fact!
So I would encourage any would be working cocker stud owner to take their male dog to gun dog training, and to take them out on shoots, and do a few days beating here and there. If your dog proves to be a fantastic all round gun dog, as well as a wonderfully mannered house dog, then by all means go ahead and register your dog at stud. You could even take it a step further and actually compete with your working dog in field tests and trials in order to get some solid qualification that your dog is of a good standard for improving the breed in general.
There's too much sloppy breeding going on at the moment from BYB, puppy farmers, and well meaning but imo misguided folk blinded by how much they rate their own dog. So please take up the banner for this breed that we all love so much and become really good ambassadors who do all of the health screening schemes, and also who aim to achieve the recognized qualifications that are there for our breed to compete for in order to identify the dogs who are indeed outstanding.  (for both show and working strain  )

(I'm not trying to offend anyone with this post, I just have rather strong opinions concerning what constitutes a good reason/s to breed from dogs, and especially working cockers as they're rather close to my heart  )

Once again, good luck to everyone with their health testing, I hope everyone's doggies come back with A* results 

Mary xxx

[sportsmonki]

I do hope all went well and that you are happy with the results.

[Angels of Fur]

sorry if i sound dilly, but whats the best result? i dont understand hip scoring results

[Jane S]

Each hip is given a score from 0 (perfect) to a possible 53 (the very worst score). You're aiming for the combined score from both hips to be below the breed average (currently 14) and for both hips to be scored as evenly as possible eg 3:3 would give a score of 6 which would be well below the breed average and so a good score for a Cocker.

[JohnW]

Good luck with the hip scoring, fingers crossed that all the boys being tested have healthy hips so they won't go lame early on in life

I personally wouldn't advocate using working cocker's that aren't actually used for gun dog work as studs though (this might just be me being old fashioned but...)
For me working cocker's are bred to be hunting, flushing, and retrieving dogs, and this is what has kept the working cocker such a healthy and intelligent breed. I take great pleasure in working mine, and think that there is no better all round breed for the job in fact!
So I would encourage any would be working cocker stud owner to take their male dog to gun dog training, and to take them out on shoots, and do a few days beating here and there. If your dog proves to be a fantastic all round gun dog, as well as a wonderfully mannered house dog, then by all means go ahead and register your dog at stud. You could even take it a step further and actually compete with your working dog in field tests and trials in order to get some solid qualification that your dog is of a good standard for improving the breed in general.

Mary while I have the greatest of respect for your opinion on that working cocker's should only really be used in the field I totally disagree with this, field sports are that simply a sport, well these days, times have moved on as far as this little dog is concerned, and while working cocker's were originally bred for that, but then again so were all dogs originally, Working cocker's now excel as agility and believe me by what I have seen these competitions take allot of stamina and intelligence to achieve the highest levels and more trainers are becoming aware of the working cocker's capability in this field, It is just as competitive as the field trial at top level competitions. I have been speaking to our local prison (dog training section) and they are screaming out for working cocker's and these dogs also work just as hard as any field working spaniel, Then theres the new sports coming over from America like flyball where working cocker's seem to excel, And to be honest the typical working cocker makes an excellent family pet and to the most, happily settle into family lifestyle. I will have Bailey Hip scored as many trialling Studs (and lets face it allot of Champions included) from working kennels simply don't bother to do any kind of screening, Bailey now agility trains and both his parents were working dogs and to date 4 of his pups are now in working kennels, I have retained a pup from him a little lad I called Raven and next week we start training in northumberland i am hoping we will be both ready in time to go beating in time for next seasons shoot. But like I also said Bailey is being hip scored to also add to the working average records for the BVA as it seems not enough are going for such tests. Plus Field champions don't necessarily produce good working dogs either the same probably goes for show champions not necessarily producing champions.

But I am not convinced Working cocker's should only kept within the hardcore working sector these little dogs have allot more in them than just the field trialling sports, Hopefully in the future dogs will be officially recognised for there achievements in the agility field and other sporting sectors other than field trialling as I have found out for myself the trainer and the dog needs allot of concentration in this area too.

But I guess sometimes we will just have to agree to disagree  regards john

[wrenside]

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. It's great that you are doing other 'sports' with your dogs to prove that they are healthy, well balanced, bidable dogs.  My comments were mainly focused at the type of person who seems to think that because they love their pet, and that it looks nice, then it will make a wonderful stud dog - without doing either the relevant health checks or also any 'work' with their dog to prove any sort of excellence  There currently seems to be a trend in these types of 'breeder' of working cockers who are more interested in the different colours that they can produce, rather than focusing on what the breed is supposed to be like in terms of being fantastic active little dogs who thrive on the outdoors.

I suppose it just makes me rather uneasy to hear of people breeding 'working cockers' who have proven to be poor working dogs (ie: are not keen on retrieving, are gun shy, tend to leg it off on there own for hours etc...) If these sorts of dogs are bred from and become part of the fabric of the breed then it will be much harder in the future to find really good working dogs. In my opinion a well bred working dog would probably be a much better fly ball, agility etc... dog than one that has been bred by 'pet' breeders. So I think that it's probably in both our interests to encourage the 'working' of cockers to establish their suitability as stud dogs, whether that be agility, flyball, beating etc.... 

Good luck with the hip scoring 

Mary xxx

[Angels of Fur]

Just adding to this, i have a working Boy, he has been neutered though. His Dad and Grandad were both proven in field with FTCH etc. They had relevant tests and bred them. I was under the impression that the breeder bred purely for the working lifestyle to gun dog trainers etc, which makes me question why they allowed us to take on a puppy from him.

We took alfie on and he is a very handsome, Very clever quick to learn with great build and stamina and my MIL turned around and said to me that we needed to use him as a stud due to his great Lines, his temperment, his markings and good looks. I was horrified  to think they she would want to stud a dog due to this, Alfie is not even proven in the field. She seen Alfie as a money making machine for me and OH as she knew nothing of it. 
Although he bought a working cocker, i must admit i love their look and temperment but do have every intention of taking him to a local gun dog club and getting him trained up. Not to enter the trials but to take beating etc ( OH is really keen now he is 1 to get the training started)

Had we of decided though to get him proven in the field and use him as a stud dog ( would never be the case anyway ) we would ensure that all relevant health checks were completed as i am completely for health testing.

But saying about Working your worker, does that also mean that to Breed a show you would also need to be proven in the show? I dont know anything about being a breeder though. All i know is i LOVE my worker and my half/half and having known show cockers also i have come to realise that they are every bit as inteligent and gorgeous and quick as the workers.

Good luck everyone on the Hip scoring......

[JohnW]

Well the one thing I have noticed is allot of people are now becoming aware of the working cocker and what he is capable of, I think it's more about education and encouragement to new owners and even to a point the more longer term owner, thankfully in their wisdom and foresight people got sites like this up and running as I now know I have a group of people I can ask for advise and opinions on my dogs and get an honest reply back, even if I disagree, at least we are all here for the same reason (to help). I agree that when owning a dog especially one from working lines you should really look into stimulating him or her by way of plenty of walks and where possible agility and flyball and yes even possibly some gundog training if you are able at the very least it will give you a better understanding of your own dogs personality. So apart from initially looking at this subject from a slightly different angle I agree on the whole with your last comments Mary. It is better that breeders should do some kind of activities (sports) with there dogs. 

[Cob-Web]

While I support the responsible breeding of working cockers in order to maintain the strain for future generations; I don't think that there is any need to breed working or show cockers specifically for the pet market, as the majority of litters bred for working/show actually end up in pet homes and a lot go on to successfully take part in competitive agility and flyball 

Many Police Forces manage to train rescue dogs, and puppies donated from accidental litters; Devon and Cornwall are seeking rescue spaniels at the moment