Author Topic: Sable colouring.  (Read 9266 times)

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Offline heelers n cockers

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 02:10:50 PM »
its another of the Cocker colours i love, i would love to have one of each a sable parti and a solid chocolate sable but a black sable would do too!  :005: my OH wants a solid gold though and/or an orange roan so i guess i would have to forego my sable/chocolate preferances if i wanted any more Cockers!  ::) but saying that i wouldn't get very far in the show ring it's bad enough showing a light chocolate roan and a black/tan never mind a sable :005:

This is the problem with cockers isn't it?! I want one of every colour!! A little cocker rainbow!! How many colours are there? In my head I counted 15!! Thats a lot of cockers!!

that is so true!  :005: i would have to win the lottery and have a huge house with a large amount of land and then get a Cocker of every colour!  :005: :lol2:
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Offline Jeanette

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 02:12:05 PM »
I am still on the fence wether I like this colour, I guess it will possibly grow on me :-\

I don't like the colour, think i'm one of the very few on here who don't.   Not sure why I don't like, it just doesn't appeal to me.  



Offline Ninasmum

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 07:00:06 PM »
its another of the Cocker colours i love, i would love to have one of each a sable parti and a solid chocolate sable but a black sable would do too!  :005: my OH wants a solid gold though and/or an orange roan so i guess i would have to forego my sable/chocolate preferances if i wanted any more Cockers!  ::) but saying that i wouldn't get very far in the show ring it's bad enough showing a light chocolate roan and a black/tan never mind a sable :005:

This is the problem with cockers isn't it?! I want one of every colour!! A little cocker rainbow!! How many colours are there? In my head I counted 15!! Thats a lot of cockers!!

I feel the same too and would love to have one of every colour.  :luv:  It would be so much easier if there was only ONE colour!!  ;)


Nina, Jo Jo, Georgia & Alfie

Offline Beth

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009, 07:24:12 PM »
its another of the Cocker colours i love, i would love to have one of each a sable parti and a solid chocolate sable but a black sable would do too!  :005: my OH wants a solid gold though and/or an orange roan so i guess i would have to forego my sable/chocolate preferances if i wanted any more Cockers!  ::) but saying that i wouldn't get very far in the show ring it's bad enough showing a light chocolate roan and a black/tan never mind a sable :005:

This is the problem with cockers isn't it?! I want one of every colour!! A little cocker rainbow!! How many colours are there? In my head I counted 15!! Thats a lot of cockers!!

I feel the same too and would love to have one of every colour.  :luv:  It would be so much easier if there was only ONE colour!!  ;)

Or even like Cavs, they only have four colours, much easier to achieve a full set :shades: :lol2:
Owned by Jarvis (Cocker), and Lucy (Cavalier).

Offline spanielkiss

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2009, 01:42:36 PM »
The problem with Sables is that they are soooo irresistable when they are puppies  :luv: :luv: :luv:


Offline Coco

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2009, 01:48:57 PM »
Hmm, from that linek I think the sable roan is what I think of as sable. The 'Sables' in the pictures look like black and tan to me  :huh:

edited: I meant link! And also, not saying anything bad about sable just that I didn't realise exactly what sable was until now  ::)
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Offline spanielkiss

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2009, 02:40:10 PM »
They are often confused for black and tan to those who haven't seen them before .
Their adult coat could be described like that of a GDS I suppose . All single black sable hairs start off golden /red at the root and along the hair shaft they become black .
A sable has golden hair under the belly ,on the chest and on lower legs ,and the back, thigh and upper arm are the sable colour as described above .

Here is an adult




Offline Jane S

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2009, 03:06:21 PM »
Hmm, from that line I think the sable roan is what I think of as sable. The 'Sables' in the pictures look like black and tan to me  :huh:

Black and tans (and other colours with tan points like tricolours) only have the distinct tan markings in certain areas confined to the extremities of the body ie above the eyes, inside the ears, under the tail, above the feet. Sables are v different as the tan colouring isn't confined to these small areas.

Their adult coat could be described like that of a GDS I suppose . All single black sable hairs start off golden /red at the root and along the hair shaft they become black .

That confuses me a bit as I'd understood that in Cockers, sabling does not mean that the hairs are different colours ie starting off red/gold and becoming black. That's only seen in breeds with the wolf-sable gene and Cockers don't have this gene, as far as I know :-\ This site (mentioned earlier) explains it better (although I know it's for American Cockers): http://www.artistrycockers.com/Sable%20Cockers.htm

Jane

Offline spanielkiss

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2009, 03:50:27 PM »
In the American sable cocker you are correct but to my knowledge the English sable cocker is different . This was proved after I sent samples to Scientists in America who were very confused to say the least . The have worked on my samples and that of a kennel in Sweden and have now located the Agouti gene responible for the sable colour in the ECS .

For example if I were to clip my sables back she would almost look golden/red in colour . There are some hairs that are totally black on the face , ears and back so she couldn't be clipped and mistaken for red though .But most of her back hairs begin red coloured for a cm or so and then shade darker until they are are black .

I almost totally hand strip her because if I  cheat and use thinners I cut off the black ends and she looks a mess .

Here is a quote from Sweden
"Almost two years ago our new import finally arrived to us. As his name was Cardamine The Sable King our children soon began to call him “Kungen”, a Swedish word meaning the king. Kungen was also an English Cocker Spaniel, as our other dogs, but he differs in that regard that his colour was sable, red with a black “saddle”. In the saddle, each individual hair is bicoloured, black on top and red closer to the skin. This sable colour would make our minds busy for a long time forward. "

Sables seem to go grey on the head quite young , this is a mystery to me .




Offline Jane S

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2009, 04:23:39 PM »
In the American sable cocker you are correct but to my knowledge the English sable cocker is different . This was proved after I sent samples to Scientists in America who were very confused to say the least . The have worked on my samples and that of a kennel in Sweden and have now located the Agouti gene responible for the sable colour in the ECS .

That would be Vetgen I guess as I think they're still looking for further samples to confirm their findings. It's quite bizarre really that two closely related breeds can have what appear to be exactly the same sable colour patterns but which are genetically different despite the fact that both breeds descend from exactly the same root stock. I can't say I understand how this has happened but then there's a lot that's not clear about sable and how it's inherited :005: I think some breeders are wrong in how they explain sable inheritance as they're not taking into account the influence of the K gene - the Vetgen site itself is quite good for explaining how the different genes interact together (articles written only a few years ago are already out of date as the K gene wasn't known about then). I'd love a geneticist to really look into it and explain it properly as at the moment there's an awful lot of contradictory info out there ;)

Jane

Offline 6thSense

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2009, 04:27:07 PM »
I have nothing further to add, just that this is all extremely fascinating. I am learning so much about this unusual, but stunning colour!!
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Offline hovis

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2009, 04:41:23 PM »
I am still on the fence wether I like this colour, I guess it will possibly grow on me :-\

I don't like the colour, think i'm one of the very few on here who don't.   Not sure why I don't like, it just doesn't appeal to me.  

............I'm with you Jeanette! Definately an 'aquired' taste but then if we all liked the same it would be a very dull world ;)

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Offline spanielkiss

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2009, 07:08:47 PM »
I t might surprise you to know that I personally prefer your average everyday solids, especially to show  :shades:
As loved family pets I like all of the colours ,strawberry ,chocolate ,roans  even the "Tuxedos"  :rofl1:, what matters more than anything is the health and temperament

Offline Jeanette

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2009, 07:30:21 PM »
I am still on the fence wether I like this colour, I guess it will possibly grow on me :-\

I don't like the colour, think i'm one of the very few on here who don't.   Not sure why I don't like, it just doesn't appeal to me.  

............I'm with you Jeanette! Definately an 'aquired' taste but then if we all liked the same it would be a very dull world ;)



Exactly, I have a black and tan and theres people who either love them or hate them, whatever the colour they're all gorgeous cockers.



Offline JohnW

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Re: Sable colouring.
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2009, 11:09:49 PM »
the pic spanielkiss has submitted, well I am hooked, absolutely stunning dog ;)