Stud Question

[cbabe]

In answer to your original question i can provide an example.

Using my dads 2 working springers and my sisters working springer at stud did not change their personallity in any way, nor did it make them more interested in the ladies - they still managed to work side by side in the field.

He dads best friend had a springer and all he could think about was girls - and he had never been used at stud. A right pain when the girls were retrieving!


Speaking from a gundog background, potential users of your stud would want to see him working before using him - this does not neccessarily mean he has to have entered lots of trails - but he will need to be a good worker and retriever and be able to cover the ground well. Do you take him shooting??

clare

[Jane S]

In years gone by, it didn't cross pet owners' minds to offer their boys at stud - they were pets & pets only. I grew up with a succession of male dogs & never once did my parents consider they should be bred from, although they were all kept entire. When we started getting seriously interested in Cockers, the older breeders all advised novices not to consider keeping a dog at stud until they had years of experience in the breed. Nowadays it seems fairly common for people with very little experience to want to know how to "stud" their pet dogs. I'm not getting at Janice at all as she is obviously thinking things through the pros & cons properly - I'm just curious as to why things have changed so much or maybe it's me being old-fashioned again

Jane

[Cob-Web]

Jsne

Could it be because we (new owners) are encouraged to find out as much as possible about the sire and dame; and previous litters etc?

When I was younger, it was just accepted that a pups 'dad' was KC registered; you never knew anything about him other than his KC name!

Now we are having to do more research to find a 'reputable' breeder, the sire becomes a more important part of the selection process, and so has more attention drawn to him than before.

I suppose if you have a dog, its natural to compare him back to his sire if you have met him/know about him?

Just a thought......

[Jane S]

Jsne

Could it be because we (new owners) are encouraged to find out as much as possible about the sire and dame; and previous litters etc?

When I was younger, it was just accepted that a pups 'dad' was KC registered; you never knew anything about him other than his KC name!

Now we are having to do more research to find a 'reputable' breeder, the sire becomes a more important part of the selection process, and so has more attention drawn to him than before.

I suppose if you have a dog, its natural to compare him back to his sire if you have met him/know about him?

Just a thought......

No I don't think that's it Rachel -I get lots of enquiries from people asking about stud work who do not know their dog's pedigree or even whether he is KC registered. Interestingly often the first question they ask is how much they can advertise their dog for I also don't see how researching your own dog's lines would make you want to offer him at stud? I can remember having great fun tracing our old Dalmation's pedigree when I was a child & being very excited about the Champions in red ink (I was pedigree mad even then ) but it still didn't occur to us to want to breed from him.

Jane

 

[Mike]

Possibly a consequence of the less responsible side of breeding; classified ads, pet shops, are often full of litters of pups being advertised and people see this and think "gosh, there's money to be made in breeding!" ?

[Gilly]

Janice, this post isn't aimed at you  

I agree you only need to look on any free website or paper and there are loads of people offering dogs at stud  

Sometimes I get really mad as a girl at work's In-Laws just rescued a golden cocker girl from a young couple who couldn't cope with her. I said that I would try and get some information on the dog for her and Jane looked into her pedigree for me   Well to be honest it was a right old mixed bag of working/show type and some fairly dodgy breeding.  
A few weeks later she said that the girl was settling in well and had come into season, she then said that MIL was thinking of breeding her maybe on the next one. WHY!!!! I said, she looked at me dumfounded   what do you mean, why? she said back. Now this is what makes me MAD!!! they had never even considered research or ANYTHING!!

I will be honest and say that Buttons is not perfect by all manner of means, but, I asked the honest opinion of someone with 20 years experience if she thought she was good enough. If she had said no, I would have gone and bought another puppy, end of story   I want to breed good examples of the breed.

Sometimes people come on the forum asking about litters they have just had and don't even know what colour the puppies are!!! it beggars belief

 

[*Jay*]

I will hold my hands up here and say that when I got Dallas, my big master plan was to show him and use him at stud. The reason behind this(it was perfectly logical at the time ) was that when I was looking for a new puppy, I was going to be getting a black bitch. When I went to see the litter, there were no bitches left and as I had always wanted a black dog, I booked him. I then figured that I could use him at stud and get my bitch that way  Thankfully, Mother Nature stepped in and I couldn't show him so that put an end to that  

I am hoping to show Disney, and even if he turns out to be such a wonderful example of the breed with excellent hips and clear eyes that he has cocker girlies queuing at our door, I'm not convinced I would want to use him as a stud dog. My reason for that is that I have 3 male dogs living together quite happily and I would hate for anything to upset that. Granted, that may not happen but then again, it might  I just have to ask myself if its worth the risk? I never say never but lets just say I don't think its going to be very likely.  

[Miss Poohs]

I'm dead confused now - I don't know what to do, which suggests to me to keep Ruffy as a pet.

Which I suppose makes me wonder is it fair for me to keep him entire if I don't intend to breed him?

Clare - we haven't been out on any trails or shoots yet - Rufus is only just 6 months old and we were advised to wait until he was between 9 - 12 months before introducing him to the field.

He shows kean interest whilst on a regular walk, and has an inquizative (sp?), busy nose, but it's all very much in the early stages. I'm on a steep learning curve too.

Thanks for all your views and opinions - I appreciate it. Jx

[Kim]

Another thing to consider here, is that when anything goes wrong with a litter or even a single puppy from a litter it is invariably the stud dog that gets the blame  

I'm not saying the breeders here on this forum do this, but I bet they have all heard it happen ?

[tracey]

I just wanted to add that " proven " producers of quality puppies who do well in the show ring ( can't comment on working cockers , but Clare has experience) have very few requests for their services. So I'm not sure how many requests you would get if any, for your pet boy

As a stud dog owner you need detailed Knowledge of pedigrees to decide if your boy is suited to a visiting bitch. You are also partly responsible for puppies sired by your dog.

I can't work out why the choice is stud dog or castrate? Why not leave him entire unless there is good reason not too?

Tracey  

[Miss Poohs]

I don't know how to put this - but won't all those raging hormones that Ruffy will soon have make him errrrmmm "frisky"?

With Wee Pad it was never a problem until the last year - 18 months, of his life
(he was about 12 when I lost him). Then he appeared to just sort of flip, and chased anything in a skirt!!

I felt so sorry for him and very responsible, as I kept thinking I should have had him neutered, and hadn't.

I tell ya I worry more about these dogs, than I do about my son    

[suki1964]

As I said, with Gunnar there was no problem untill the accidental mating took place. Yes he was interested if he came across a bitch in season but it was forgotten about near enough imediately untill that one time he managed to mount one. As I understand it, dogs are not like men, they appear to need to be "activated" by a bitch in season (for want of a better word) before the urge takes over

[Gilly]

I had an entire male for 15 long wonderful years and never had a problem, to be honest it never crossed my mind to have him neutered  
Look at it this way, if a man is celibate should he be castrated? or if a woman chooses not to have children should she be sterilized?  

[Shirley]

This is truely not aimed at anyone, just a general thought on Jane's question about the change in attitude in owners of male dogs.

I think that using a dog at stud is seen as an easy way to make money from breeding, without the hard work and  responsibility of rearing and finding good homes for a litter of pups.

I'm no expert but I'm sure there are no shortage of good quality stud dogs which have proved themselves both in the showring and through previous litters.

I think anyone willing to use someone's pet cocker (that has never been shown/used before) as a stud dog is not the type of person who should be breeding in the first place.  That's just my opinion of course  

NB - The only other dog that I've had lived out 12 years of his life intact and without any behavioural or health problems as a result.  My plan is for Morgan and Cooper to do exactly the same  


P.S. Gilly, that is one cute photo of Butty - Morgan and Cooper are now begging me to let them have a girlfriend    

[Gilly]

Shirley that is a picture of Butty at 6 weeks old  

I'm no expert but I'm sure there are no shortage of good quality stud dogs which have proved themselves both in the showring and through previous litters.

I think anyone willing to use someone's pet cocker (that has never been shown/used before) as a stud dog is not the type of person who should be breeding in the first place. That's just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with that