Two 5 week old cocker pups put to sleep this morning

[Sharon]

5 years ago we had a litter of 3 pups, one of which was born with a cataract so completely blind in one eye, it wasn't picked up until she was around 6 months old, we didn't notice because she had been born blind she didn't suddenly change but I wouldn't have dreamed of having her pts    We paid the £2800 for the op to have the cataract removed and new lens put in, I nursed her 24/7 administering a combination of eye drops every hour for the first 3 days, she made a full recovery and we let my OH's Aunty have her,  she was in remission from cancer and they helped each other fully recover.  She's a healthy 5 year old, full of energy, with sight in both eyes......I know deafness can't be changed, but if otherwise healthy I just can't imagine having them pts at that age 

My sil had a deaf cocker, born this way, she lived to be 13 with no other health problems.

[lindseyp]

It's not my place to past judgement on the breeder in questions as, as others have said, we don't know the full facts & only know 3rd hand.
.......but I can only speak from my experience & opinions I now have.
As some of you may know, we had a litter of pups from Purdey over 4 years ago (all done above board with health tests & long standing breeder support etc) - she healthily delivered a litter of 9 & all survived. When eyes opened at 14 days is became apparent there could be problems with two of the pups eyes. Vet referred us to (well known & renowned) ophthalmologist - he diagnosed micropthalmia (small eye) - more common in Cavaliers King Charles spaniels/Australian Shepherd dogs but can affect any breed & USUALLY the whole litter would be affected. Our specialist had to PTS a whole litter of boxers born with it not long before we were referred   Tinker had the most severe symptoms & is blind (one eye removed in Dec '10) - we were offered to P her TS - but couldn't & chose to keep her with us.
She is an extraordinary, unique & very special BUT needs far more time & commitment than a 'normal' pup/dog & her life with her mum & sister is one of careful management & routine to keep everybody happy......she's a fiesty little character, that's afraid of no other dog & who's not afraid to stand her ground    Although two very dear friends wanted her, I was reluctant to home her to anyone - irrespective of how lovely they were, as I worried they wouldn't be able to cope or give her what she needed for life. As she has aged, it is now obvious she has breathing problems too - an elongated palate (operated on in Dec '10) & probable nasal deformities.
I don't know what would of happened if the whole litter had been affected - thankfully I won't ever have to but it gave me an insight into the huge responsibilities you have when breeding - from the moment of conception right through to when those pups are old & go to the bridge - they are always your responsibility.
Personally I couldn't PTS two little pups that were 'just' deaf or any other abnormality that wouldn't affect their quality of life BUT breeding isn't so black & white & there are so many other factors that you nor I know or understand.
It would be naive to think that all breeders are thinking of the pups quality of life above their reputation when having pups PTS (& this breeder may be one ) but as we don't know all the facts & would be inappropriate to comment     

[Ninasmum]

IF the facts are correct then yes it is a totally despicable act    & to refuse rescue placement for them absolutely sickens me.   
Those little puppies could have had a chance of living a normal, happy life. 
The only reason i can think is the breeder didn't want their name 'tarnished'    I am utterly disgusted at the thought of this. 
Shame on them if this is what happened.

[jasper_boy]

I have just seen that two five week old cocker boys were put to sleep by their breeder this morning, because they are deaf   the others are being BEAR tested today, so am hoping that the other survive when the results are back.

The breeder has been breeding for 20 years and never had a deaf pup in the litter. She will be using the same bitch but using a different stud dog next time.

What do people think about this? Is it acceptable for a breeder to put to sleep healthy pups? Oh, she was offered rescue placement which didn't take it up.

Was this an article or a news story you have ' seen ' ?

I Find it very upsetting but unfortunately not surprising 

I am a member of a deaf dog group on FB and the founding member spent a lot of time on the phone to the breeder trying to convince her to hand the pups over and not PTS. Unfortunately, whilst the breeder did allow her time to talk and explain how well deaf dogs can live, she didn't change her mind. The breeder thinks a couple of the other pups have limited hearing (but some) and is happy to sell these 

[Joyce]

It's true you can read all about it on fb The Deaf Dog Network, I feel sicken that somebody in our breed could do such a thing, this breeder was given every chance for these puppies to be homed.

[Jane S]

The only reason i can think is the breeder didn't want their name 'tarnished'    I am utterly disgusted at the thought of this. 
Shame on them if this is what happened.

I know quite a few well-known breeders who have produced deaf pups over the years. We have bred a deaf puppy ourselves - we knew she was deaf by 3-4 weeks old and she was placed (not sold) with friends of ours where she is a very happy little character (I see her regularly for trimming). Her mother was never bred from again. I don't think our name has been "tarnished" and don't really understand why anyone would feel like that - ALL breeders (no matter who they are and whether they admit it or not) will eventually come across some problem or another in their puppies, it's unavoidable really. It's how you deal with those problems that matters.

However like Lindsey says, I don't think it's always a black and white issue and don't really want to villify someone without knowing their side of things

[Ninasmum]

The only reason i can think is the breeder didn't want their name 'tarnished'    I am utterly disgusted at the thought of this. 
Shame on them if this is what happened.

I know quite a few well-known breeders who have produced deaf pups over the years. We have bred a deaf puppy ourselves - we knew she was deaf by 3-4 weeks old and she was placed (not sold) with friends of ours where she is a very happy little character (I see her regularly for trimming). Her mother was never bred from again. I don't think our name has been "tarnished" and don't really understand why anyone would feel like that - ALL breeders (no matter who they are and whether they admit it or not) will eventually come across some problem or another in their puppies, it's unavoidable really. It's how you deal with those problems that matters.

However like Lindsey says, I don't think it's always a black and white issue and don't really want to villify someone without knowing their side of things

No of course Jane decent, caring breeders wouldn't think like that at all, sadly though not everyone that breeds has the same ethics.    I wish with all my heart they did. 

[Uncon]

It was pure luck that I found COL when I got Harvey as a pup six years ago. It was through COL that I met the woman who has his sister, and we have both now taken rescue cockers.

Bear with me as I do have a relevant point...the point being that those pups could have been homed rather than PTS if the owner knew that a home could be found as easily as maybe posting in our rescue section. It has made me think, and my trimmer has agreed that it would be ok to put up a card that simply states the web address with a picture of a cocker. When Red Alert is next at the vets (26th October to be spayed) I will do the same on their notice board.

I live in spaniel country (Shropshire) and we need to be known so that pups like this are not viewed as something to  be got rid of or ashamed of without thought.

[Joyce]

Jane the Deaf Dog Network on fb gave this breeder every chance to save these puppies, but she wouldn't allow it, they offered to have the puppies put into foster home, who have experience with deaf dogs until new homes could be found, she is having the rest of the litter tested what will become of them, anybody who thinks more of their affix than of a dogs life should not be allowed to breed anymore, I'm absolutely sicken and it is unacceptable behaviour from a breeder of 25 yrs I wonder if there is anything in the Cocker Spaniels Clubs code of ethics       

[SkyeandOllie]

anybody who thinks more of their affix than of a dogs life should not be allowed to breed anymore, I'm absolutely sicken and it is unacceptable behaviour from a breeder of 25 yrs I wonder if there is anything in the Cocker Spaniels Clubs code of ethics       

quite agree

[Joyce]

Now that I have had time to read Members Code of Ethical Practice

Rule 3 Will agree that no healthy puppy will be culled. Puppies which may not   
         conform to the breed standard should be placed in suitable homes.

Rule 4 Will abide by all aspects of the Animal Welfare Act

[JohnW]

I have just seen that two five week old cocker boys were put to sleep by their breeder this morning, because they are deaf  the others are being BEAR tested today, so am hoping that the other survive when the results are back.

The breeder has been breeding for 20 years and never had a deaf pup in the litter. She will be using the same bitch but using a different stud dog next time.

What do people think about this? Is it acceptable for a breeder to put to sleep healthy pups? Oh, she was offered rescue placement which didn't take it up.

Shouldn't the onus also be on the vet who actually put them to sleep. Maybe if the vet had refused as a matter or ethics it may have made the breeder stand back and think about it, or at least give him/her time to dwell on it.  Many dogs live perfectly healthy lives in this day and age, we even have a collie who comes the agility comps here in the north east and that dog is paraplegic and has a wheelchair attatched to his rear but you should see him tearing around with his owner, NO he doesn't compete but he accompanies his owner while she competes with her other dogs I believe, And there are several Deaf dogs of varying degrees who react to hand signal rather than voice commands, so no reason to PTS a deaf dog IMO.

[bajoleth]

In my sisters last litter (not Cockers) she had a pup with no anus and only a partially formed intestine who had to be pts and another pup with a partially formed anus, she had him operated on and then homed him with a family member free of course, it would have been cheaper for her to have that pup put to sleep  but she was responsible and wanted to do the best she could for him, the Dam was spayed after the litter. She is not alone I know of a few breeders who have done similar things, unfortunately it does seem to be the 'old school' types that view their breeding stock and offspring in a different way  sorry if I am speaking out of turn and am not of course generalising but of all the breeders my sister spoke to about that litter the older breeders who had been breeding for 25yrs plus all said it would be better to 'cull' the pup it was only the younger generation who agreed with her in trying to save him

[Helen]

I don't know both sides of the full story here so I'm not going to comment on the wrongs or the rights.  What I will say is if there are (unfortunately  ) 2 free rescue spaces now at least it gives a couple of poundie's a chance as they don't deserve to die either 

[Joyce]

I agree with you about the old school I'm not a young person myself in my 60's but the people that have been breeding for 25yrs plus need to open there eyes, there is a network of people out there willing to look after disabled dogs, it's just not acceptable behaviour these days, when the old school started to breed there wasn't the help but now there is.