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Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Top Barks on February 04, 2010, 09:14:40 PM

Title: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 04, 2010, 09:14:40 PM: Here is my recipe for a truly reliable recall

Things you need

Choose a treat or some other reward that is going to be used only for the whistle and nothing else. This reward has to be really high value.

A whistle that when you blow it you can hear it. If your dog has learned to ignore a whistle then choose a different one.
I use an Acme 210.5

N.B
Before doing any of the following make sure your dog is not afraid of the sound of the whistle. Introduce the sound at a distance and gauge your dogs reaction.
If your dog appears fearful then think about choosing anther recall cue.

A selection of whistle sounds can be found on the Acme website if you click on the individual products
http://acmewhistles.co.uk/xcart/home.php?cat=3

Step 1
Blow the whistle (Fast continuous pips work well for recall) while your dog is with you and feed them the treat while holding their collar.
Do this three times a day for a week.
Make sure you feed immediately after you blow the whistle.

Step 2
Blow the whistle while your dog is in the same room but not at your side. When they come, hold their collar and feed them the treat or play the special game.
Make sure your dog is already on the way to you when you blow the whistle.
Do this for two or three days.

Step 3
Blow the whistle while your dog is in another room. Make sure your dog is already on the way to you when you blow the whistle. When they come, hold their collar and feed them the treat etc.
Do this for two or three days.

Step 4
Blow the whistle while your dog is in the garden and you are in the house. Make sure your dog is already on the way to you when you blow the whistle. When your dog comes, hold their collar and feed them the treat.
Do this for two or three days.
Do at least one repetition where you feed or play with the dog (which ever they prefer) for a full thirty seconds.

Step 5
Blow the whistle while your dog is on a long line or extending lead in a field. Make sure your dog is already on the way to you when you blow the whistle. When your dog comes, hold their collar and feed them the treat.
Do this for two weeks. Do at least one repetition where you feed or play the dog for a full thirty seconds.

Step 6
Blow the whistle while your dog is off lead but not playing. Make sure your dog is already on the way to you when you blow the whistle. When your dog comes, hold their collar and feed them the treat. Do at least one repetition where you feed the dog for a full thirty seconds.

Step 7
Blow the whistle while your dog is playing but on a long line. Start to walk backwards with the line and when your do turns towards you get down to his level, open up your body and blow your whistle recall, keep blowing the whistle until he gets to you When your dog comes, hold their collar and feed them the treat.
Do this for two weeks. Do at least one repetition where you feed the dog for a full thirty seconds.

I would add that you should not attempt to blow the whistle unless you are 100% your dog will respond in the early days or even months so your dog never learns to ignore the sound. I would not want to be blowing the whistle twice or else the dog will learn he comes sometimes when he hears it.
This is why I use the security blanket of a long line more than other folks, because I want the conditioning to be strong. This is so the dog hears whistle and knows exactly what to do, doesn't have to think, just does because that is what happens when he hears the sound.
When training this, if you can't put your mortgage on your dog coming back then DON'T blow the whistle or you will undo the conditioning process.

Think about what your dog finds rewarding and use it to your advantage, make the environment work for you rather than against you. Reward anytime your dog voluntarily checks in and be sure to send them away when you have finished rewarding them. I would also hand feed your dog at least one meal a day.
Hope this helps
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Jeanette on February 04, 2010, 09:31:27 PM: Mark thats fab, going to keep that for the next dog as never whistle trained Indie but not going to start with her as she doesn't need it.

However, I might be missing something here but if they are in another room or the garden and you don't blow the whistle until they are on the way back to you, how do you know they are coming back or are you supposed to call them to get them to come and then blow the whistle - this is probably a really obvious answer so apologies in advance if I'm being dim :shades:
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: cockers rock! on February 04, 2010, 09:44:15 PM: Thanks Mark

This is very timely and helpful for me!!

Pup Hector has regressed very badly on recall (he is now nearly 9 months). Up to 6 months he was pretty good. The last month or so he is ignoring a lots of commands and today really worried me by bounding off after another dog across the park's carpark >:D >:D

Will restart training with this technique
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: lindseyp on February 04, 2010, 09:56:42 PM: Another thankyou from me too Mark ;)

I'm going to buy a whistle & have a very good try at improving Livies recall. She's 3 (but I presume it's still possible to correct mistakes I've already made ph34r ) & has selective recall ...... no problem so far, as I walk in 'safe places' but if there were a danger i.e. road, then I know she wouldn't recall (..my fault, I know :embarassed: ) as well as the good question Janette asks could I just ask about multiple dogs. I have the 3 & you say about holding their collars etc when treating in the early stages....how would you approach this if all come at once (again, the answer is probably obvious ....so sorry if I sound dense .......probably 'cos I am :lol2: )

Lindsey x
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 04, 2010, 10:08:15 PM: Quote from: Jeanette on February 04, 2010, 09:31:27 PM
Mark thats fab, going to keep that for the next dog as never whistle trained Indie but not going to start with her as she doesn't need it.

However, I might be missing something here but if they are in another room or the garden and you don't blow the whistle until they are on the way back to you, how do you know they are coming back or are you supposed to call them to get them to come and then blow the whistle - this is probably a really obvious answer so apologies in advance if I'm being dim :shades:

yep shout them or make a fuss and don't make it too difficult for the dog to be able to comeback in the early stages.
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Jeanette on February 04, 2010, 10:13:15 PM: Quote from: Top Barks on February 04, 2010, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: Jeanette on February 04, 2010, 09:31:27 PM
Mark thats fab, going to keep that for the next dog as never whistle trained Indie but not going to start with her as she doesn't need it.

However, I might be missing something here but if they are in another room or the garden and you don't blow the whistle until they are on the way back to you, how do you know they are coming back or are you supposed to call them to get them to come and then blow the whistle - this is probably a really obvious answer so apologies in advance if I'm being dim :shades:

yep shout them or make a fuss and don't make it too difficult for the dog to be able to comeback in the early stages.

Brilliant, thank you :D
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: MaggieR on February 04, 2010, 10:15:07 PM: Thanks for the post... I've not had too much of an issue with Maggie in the past, but with her being on cage rest and very restricted exercise for at least the another six weeks I'm already starting to worry about the first time we do venture out again so will try to start on this once we have the all clear.
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: SandraD on February 04, 2010, 10:26:39 PM: Thank you Mark, have the whistle, sussed the high value treats now just have to put it all into practice!!
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: AnnieA on February 05, 2010, 09:24:47 AM: Thanks Mark, that's really useful. :D I'm planning on starting this with young Ted, just as soon as I've made some livercake, which is the only thing I can imagine being more exciting than tuna bread!
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 05, 2010, 09:26:18 AM: Also make sure you can deliver treats (or other rewards quickly) Amazing how many people mess around with plastic bags in pockets.
A treat pouch or bum bag is a must!
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: black taz on February 05, 2010, 12:53:08 PM: really timely for me also as i am training Kira to the whistle at the minute. We are at the stage now when i can get her to come back from the garden on the whistle - i hadnt been making sure she was already on the way but thankfully it has been 100% so far, so i will take your advice now and make sure she is on the way before i blow it.

I have had to change to the whistle rather than verbal command as my OH has overused "come" and will repeat it over and over again and if she doesnt come gives up (as he does with most commands - despite my constant reminder not to give an instruction if he is not prepared to follow it through >:D. I did make him suffer the consequency a few weeks ago, as Taz had jumped on the bed before i got there and he told Taz to get off at least 7 times but hadnt physically removed him - he was waiting for me to do it. I just got into bed and said that as he gave the command, he must follow it through, so Taz spent most of the night on the bed (doesnt bother me :005:)
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: AnnieA on February 05, 2010, 12:58:43 PM: Quote from: Top Barks on February 05, 2010, 09:26:18 AM
Also make sure you can deliver treats (or other rewards quickly) Amazing how many people mess around with plastic bags in pockets.
A treat pouch or bum bag is a must!

Thanks for this reminder. :D Prompted me to dig out the pouch I'd forgotten I bought! ::)
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: leisl on February 05, 2010, 12:59:33 PM: Do you know, we started pet gundog training about 4 weeks ago and I introduced the whistle for the first time. I have to say within about 2 minutes Muppet picked this up and now she is a superstar hound. She cannot come back to me fast enough, EVERYTIME! I am still using the food reward when she comes back but I don't mind because she is faultless. I wish we had found this method years ago.

In the past her recall has be pretty good but you know what its like.....

Nose on the ground = complete deafness!

I can totally recommend this method.

Good luck!
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 05, 2010, 01:32:47 PM: Quote from: leisl on February 05, 2010, 12:59:33 PM
Do you know, we started pet gundog training about 4 weeks ago and I introduced the whistle for the first time. I have to say within about 2 minutes Muppet picked this up and now she is a superstar hound. She cannot come back to me fast enough, EVERYTIME! I am still using the food reward when she comes back but I don't mind because she is faultless. I wish we had found this method years ago.

In the past her recall has be pretty good but you know what its like.....

Nose on the ground = complete deafness!

I can totally recommend this method.

Good luck!

Well done Muppet! :D
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: jackieant on February 05, 2010, 11:15:35 PM: thanks again mark from me too, will buy myself that whistle i have been meaning to get but not got round to. :P
sounds great advice!
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: suespaniel on February 07, 2010, 02:32:45 PM: Hi Mark thank you so much for this I am going to ask aquestion, which, may be stupid, but here goes!...what, if someone else is also, out there in the open for example using the same whistle, would my dog then go running to that whistle? thanks Sue
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 07, 2010, 02:41:08 PM: Not if your dog is already running to you. :D
Also for me it is the way you blow it the dog understands too.
When my dogs hear the whistle they look to me.
If they heard someone else with the whistle they would still look to me.
(Apart from Bayley who is partially sighted who when he hears it far away sets off towards the nearest human sometimes, but soon reorients to the direction the sound is coming from which is part of the reason I use rapid multiple pips.)
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: Sarah.H on February 07, 2010, 03:46:41 PM: This is very similar to what I did with Millie but over a longer time frame in the early parts. Between steps 5 and 6 would you just take the long line off to practice or would you keep it off for the whole time/walk? The problem I have with Millie is that she just constantly wants to go hunting so I'm constantly recalling her or I have to let her go too far and then she gets hyped up and out of control :-\.

I'm going to keep her on the flexi lead for at least a year and then see if she's any calmer when outside. Maybe I could make the pilgrimage up to see you and get some proper training :shades:.
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: suespaniel on February 07, 2010, 04:14:23 PM: :blink: thank you Mark
Title: Re: as some of you seem to be struggling with recall
Post by: luckypenny on February 07, 2010, 10:07:41 PM: Thanks Mark - I've been guilty of showing Penny the treat when I call her ("Come see"....short for "come see what I've got") which I now realise was a bit daft as she sometimes looks to see if I have something before deciding whether to come or not. Since reading your tips yesterday I call her with no treat on display, whistle as she gets closer, then treat. It MAY have been my imagination, but when out today I do feel she was checking on me more when just walking along, or snuffling about which was great. :blink:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Colin on February 07, 2010, 10:21:38 PM: Thanks Mark, that's brillaint - I've stickied your post for future reference, I'm sure it will come in handy for all of us. :shades:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: mlynnf50 on February 08, 2010, 10:31:07 AM: Thanks for the info, i shall certainly try and put this into practice...... could anyone tell me what livercake is and does anyone have the receipe for it, I dont think we will be able to buy it out here in France oh and tuna cake as well please. thanks
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on February 08, 2010, 12:58:11 PM: There's lots of recipes for Livercake if you do a google search, but the basic ingredients are blended liver, flour & egg (cannot remember the quantities as i just usually chuck it all in rather than weighting). It sticks something chronic!

I prefer to make Pilchard cake (much cheaper than tuna cake and has a stronger smell). I use 2 cans of pilchard in tomato sauce (standard tin size), 2 eggs, grated carrot (optional) and a couple crushed garlic cloves (again optional) and self raising flour. Break up the pilchard first, then add other ingredients. Add enough flour to make the consistency of normal cakes (ie: fairy cakes), pour into baking tray and cook for 20 - 30 minutes. I then cut it up and freeze it in slices. This still smells but less so than liver and certainly easier to clean up after - the dogs seem to prefer it as well.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: mlynnf50 on February 08, 2010, 01:49:22 PM: :blink:Hi thank you for that, will try it, do you bake it at the same temp as you do for cakes?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: AnnieA on February 08, 2010, 03:02:35 PM: Quote from: mlynnf50 on February 08, 2010, 10:31:07 AM
Thanks for the info, i shall certainly try and put this into practice...... could anyone tell me what livercake is and does anyone have the receipe for it, I dont think we will be able to buy it out here in France oh and tuna cake as well please. thanks

I've done the livercake and tuna bread from this page:

http://www.itsaspringthing.co.uk/willows%20kitchen.htm

The liver one really does smell as disgusting as you might think! :020:

Love the tuna one - really quick. :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: jackieant on February 08, 2010, 06:58:01 PM: sorry but i have another question, well 2 really....

firstly, i now have my acme 110.5 whistle, and the lady in the shop advised.....
one long blast to stop the dog and then 2 or 3 short pips for recall..... do people agree with that and if so going back to marks brilliant advice, which one do i teach first...... the stop the dog from running too far or the recall method that mark explained earlier?

secondly, we go on hols in 2 weeks and charlie will not be coming with us :'(
is it worth starting any of this training or leave till we get back :-\
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 08, 2010, 08:37:41 PM: For an emergency recall I use continuous rapid pips until the dog comes to me, this can be a lot more than two or three.
There is an example of both the stop whistle (which is one blast) and recall whistle I use here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5au3M1AqoY

Should you start nowbefore your hols? Yes of course, the sooner you start the better.
Personally i would teach a recall as a preference to a stop whistle.
Hope that answers your questions.
Mark
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: daunting on February 08, 2010, 11:45:01 PM: just one question - what about a dog that won't tolerate having its collar held ::)

Max would more than likely bite your hand off if you tried that with him ph34r

I can hold his collar ( now after months of desensitising ) but he won't allow anyone else to ( same for when he has something he shouldn't i can remove it safely but no-one else unless they swap it for a few fingers :005: )

His recall is fine with me but then i am with him.....when i am not its not so good ::)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on February 09, 2010, 08:09:49 AM: Daunting are you like me and do all the training/rewarding - if so, i would encourage other members of the family to go through the same desensitizing process that you went through - if they are not prepared to then ask them to walk him on lead.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 09, 2010, 12:57:31 PM: Quote from: daunting on February 08, 2010, 11:45:01 PM
just one question - what about a dog that won't tolerate having its collar held ::)

Max would more than likely bite your hand off if you tried that with him ph34r

I can hold his collar ( now after months of desensitising ) but he won't allow anyone else to ( same for when he has something he shouldn't i can remove it safely but no-one else unless they swap it for a few fingers :005: )

His recall is fine with me but then i am with him.....when i am not its not so good ::)
Then work damn hard on keeping him with you by rewarding like crazy or if on a long line keep hold of that.
All plans have to be adaptable to each individual, and taking the dogs collar is only mentioned as a safety measure.
If that doesn't work for you then maybe try one of the above suggestions.
I do not take my dogs collars at all anymore because I don't need to.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: jackieant on February 09, 2010, 05:57:44 PM: thanks mark for all your help and advice!
i have watched the video and im impressed ;) and undrestand now what i am actually supposed to do. you are truly amazing!
it is very good of you to share your talent with us.
i shall start on the recall work tonight
thanks again
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: bondie on March 20, 2010, 11:52:21 AM: Thank you. Thank You!!! JB is good at recall on our usual walks but when we go on holiday onto deserted beaches, he's "off with the fairies" and does his own thing. My attractions (and the goodies in my pocket) pale into insignificance compared with the delights of the sandunes!! Retaining starts NOW!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Ginger on April 24, 2010, 06:38:37 PM: Hi, I have just come across your post. Bridie is 20 months old, in the house she is quite a good girl but outside I can't let her off at all. For e.g. took her over the playing field today which is not secure, let her off and that was it, no matter how many times I called her back, she just took no notice. Why is it she will do it in the house but not out and pay no attention to me whatsoever, she won't even come back for a treat?! Is it too late to start whistle training at 20 months? I'm sure if I read through loads of posts I will probably find the answer, but, desperation has kicked in today!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on April 26, 2010, 04:47:24 PM: no it's not to late at all :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on April 27, 2010, 01:01:41 PM: Any suggestions of how to cope with "random" ignoring of recall. I just seem to be taking two steps forward and one backwards with Taz. he goes for weeks having a perfect recall, and then we will go on a walk and he completely ignores me and running as fast as he can in the opposite direction (only once per walk, when i finally get him back he goes back on lead), it would be easier in some ways if he always ignored me -then i would keep him permanently on lead, but with it being so random i never know when to expect it. He does seem to be worse if i have met up with a friend - perhaps he thinks that he doesnt have my full attention!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Sarah1985 on April 27, 2010, 01:22:48 PM: Quote from: black taz on April 27, 2010, 01:01:41 PM
Any suggestions of how to cope with "random" ignoring of recall. I just seem to be taking two steps forward and one backwards with Taz. he goes for weeks having a perfect recall, and then we will go on a walk and he completely ignores me and running as fast as he can in the opposite direction (only once per walk, when i finally get him back he goes back on lead), it would be easier in some ways if he always ignored me -then i would keep him permanently on lead, but with it being so random i never know when to expect it. He does seem to be worse if i have met up with a friend - perhaps he thinks that he doesnt have my full attention!

Is he following a scent (nose to the ground) or is he just ignoring you?

You prob just need to practice recall again. As fustrating as it is to be covering the same thing again.

You need something to break whatever it is thats taken his interest. I find it helps if i get my dogs if i revist attention to name exercises. Keep (a clicker if you use it) and treats about your person and when they are off doing their own thing say their name. If they look at you click and treat. And build this up so you can barely whisper their name and they look, or in the noisest, most destracting of places you can say it and they turn and look at you. You know you've cracked it when you can get them to look up from their dinner. :005: Often if i can break mine away from whatever it is making them run away (usually scents) and get them to look at me they respond to my recall much better.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on April 28, 2010, 12:53:37 PM: Sarah - usually its a scent. When i call him whilst he is trying to find the exact scent he will look up, but then the scent gets the better of him and off he goes, then i know it is pointless calling him >:D. If i catch him early enough then i'm O.K. but it tend to be when he is a bit away from me anyway. In his defence he does come back eventually - i never go after him as i would never manage to catch him anyway, and usually within 5 minutes - and i can usually see him, albeit at a distance. I read somewhere (the gundog website) that if they come back within a reasonable amount of time they want to be with you but cannot resist the distraction, whereas if they are gone for 15+ minutes, then they couldnt careless where you are.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Ginger on May 30, 2010, 09:37:17 PM: Would like to give an update on Bridie's whistle training. Amazing! We are 4 days in to the long line whistle training. She was really put to the test for the first time tonight when another dog appeared in the little copse that we use. We honestly thought that she would ignore the whistle - but no, every time, she came back. She comes back like a bullet! Will keep this up for two weeks then move onto next stage. Then we go on holiday for a week so a little bit concerned about the break but hopefully my daughter will continue until we get back.

I have been training her to 'down' in the field with a verbal command, should I being do that with a whistle as well?

Wish I'd seen your post earlier - hindsight is a wonderful thing ;)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Danni and Freya on July 14, 2010, 09:33:39 AM: Just received my whistle in the post and really can't wait to start the training. Will be sorting out the high value treat then getting straight on with it. Freyas recall has always been 99% spot on but with young Harvey to think of too I want to get it right. Can't wait, will update when I have some news :lol2: Thanks Mark, advice like this from someone who knows thier stuff is truly invaluable :lol:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Ricka9 on August 07, 2010, 04:28:53 PM: ;) Thanks to AJW reminding me and giving me this link I have found this information extremely helpful. Roxie comes every time I call at the moment, but needs to come to others, which she hesitates over. I mean my husband and son in law - the latter will be looking after her during the day in September.

I will begin training at once and have found the step by step instructions very helpful. I had not thought as far as having her off lead yet as behaviour on lead is not excellent - shes only a baby! Noises and distractions, you know what I mean. Anyway, wont hurt to add to the training - keep her interested - me too!

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: mooching on August 24, 2010, 06:06:45 PM: A probably silly question here from a newcomer to all of this!

Once your dog has learned to respond to the whistle, do you still call them first and only blow it when they are on their way back to you, or do you then move on to blowing it to get them to come back to you?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on August 24, 2010, 09:55:30 PM: Quote from: mooching on August 24, 2010, 06:06:45 PM
A probably silly question here from a newcomer to all of this!

Once your dog has learned to respond to the whistle, do you still call them first and only blow it when they are on their way back to you, or do you then move on to blowing it to get them to come back to you?

the ultimate aim is to get them to turn on a sixpence when they here the whistle but this process is to make the connection between whistle, coming to you and fab rewards.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Rachelb on October 19, 2010, 02:02:47 PM: Thanks for the advice :)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Petepreston on November 21, 2010, 09:30:09 AM: Great advice and thanks for sharing it Top Barks.

Posie has been getting very good at her recall but it isn't 100% consistent. Usually when there are distractions such as scents, but she will often come back from greeting another dog. We've accepted this for now as she is only 6 months old. We tend to only call her when we know she isn't distracted, and then we'll do this repeatedly for a few minutes just to get it through to her.

She has only run off in an unacceptable diirection (like she knows that, eh?) once - she chased a low flying crow towards the road but she did stop before going through the railings and looked back to my wife then returned. Not sure if it was the barrier or the calling that did the trick, but it did scare the life out of my wife and she's been nervous about letting Posie off the lead anywhere since, hence looking at something more definite for a recall.

I've got the whistle ordered and we'll because we already have a good recall basis to work from we'll be using a slightly modified routine to the article. I'd appreciate some opinions on this.

We plan to add the whistle once she has started returning to us on verbal command then give the treat as usual. But also use the whistle around the house and garden to reinforce the recall/reward connection. So basically just adding the whistle to the call.

Does that sound reasonable?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scarlett on January 17, 2011, 06:35:11 PM: Scarlett is doing great with whistle training!
today was our first day out on a long leash!!
But couple of times the scent on the ground was stronger than the whistle...
What do we do in this case?
I mean I whistled and she ignored me.
I whistled again and then she came but not immediately...
The treats are her favourite boiled sausage and only for whistle training...
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on January 17, 2011, 10:14:50 PM: Start her on her way with the line by walking backwards before whistling. The idea of this training is that you don't give the whistle chance to fail.
Don't blow the whistle till she's on her way, reward with the best treats and then run over to where she was sniffing with her and tell her to sniff.
by doing this she gets a double whammy of rewards and you put the sniffing on cue.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scarlett on January 17, 2011, 10:56:28 PM: It's clear!!!
And sounds easy!! Thanks!!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Petepreston on January 23, 2011, 10:43:06 AM: Thanks for that update. It's the only time that Posie isn't instantly coming to the whistle.

I usually let her go to meet other dogs but blow when she gets halfway to them. She almost always comes back to me, then I let her go all the way over. I haven't been as strict with the training as I should but it's worked out well by using most of your tips most of the time. I have no doubt it would've been much better if I'd followed it word for word, it's just a bit harder for me.

Well done to Scarlet, too.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Fudgeley on January 26, 2011, 01:17:36 PM: Off to find my whistle and get started! I never whistle trained Fudge so it will be interesting to see how we get on with Buttons!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Petepreston on January 26, 2011, 02:33:24 PM: I met a woman today who had a 2 year old show Cocker (though he looked more like a working) and she was struggling with some of his training, but when I whistled for Posie to come & sit, he paid attention to me and even allowed me to approach without him barking, which she said was very unusual. I suppose you've either got it or you haven't, eh?

I recommended she get's a whistle and get's started with this instruction.

Thanks again TopBarks. This has been a very helpful page.
Title: !!
Post by: Scarlett on January 29, 2011, 01:06:24 PM: today it was Scarlett's first day in the woods without leash after her season...
The whistle worked great even when she met the birds she loves chasing!

I am so proud of my girl!!!!! :luv:
It was so funny as everybody looking at me with my pink whistle thought I am a trainer and Scarlett, my well trained dog :lol:

Thanks again Mark..... ;)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scarlett on February 08, 2011, 07:37:38 AM: the whistle is not only good & reliable for your dog, but also your friends' dogs!
I always use it in the woods when I go with my friend and her Beagle boy! We never trained him, but when he hears the whistle now, he comes too to take his special treat! :lol:
Imagine a Beagle boy making a perfect recall!!! :lol:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on February 08, 2011, 10:28:34 AM: You should see my 10 week old pup on the whistle :shades: He is already awesome!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scarlett on February 08, 2011, 10:49:33 AM: Quote from: Top Barks on February 08, 2011, 10:28:34 AM
You should see my 10 week old pup on the whistle :shades: He is already awesome!
they learn so fast!!!
I think I will charge all dog owners following my whistle :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: tritonx on February 27, 2011, 11:58:28 PM: Just want to say how well your method works Top Barks. I have been slow to let Fraser off leash as he has been such a distractible pup and it's taken a long time to get his attention turned to me. For a few months I've been taking him to a field and practicing recall, making sure he's already on his way toward me when I call. Increasingly I've taken him to trails and beaches and letting him off leash to ramble about (he's now 21 months) and he's been terrific at recall. He also checks in frequently which I reward with praise each time. Thanks for posting your method. It's really effective.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Hojo on May 31, 2011, 08:04:01 AM: Do you recommend starting this method straight away for a young pup? (mine is 11wks)

I was just wondering whether the fact that she is still young and unpredictable will undermine the importance of this?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Helen on May 31, 2011, 08:58:54 AM: Quote from: Hojo on May 31, 2011, 08:04:01 AM
Do you recommend starting this method straight away for a young pup? (mine is 11wks)

I was just wondering whether the fact that she is still young and unpredictable will undermine the importance of this?

yes, she will actually be far more responsive now than in a few months when she goes through adolescence ;) It's good to get the groundwork in place so you can reinforce over the next year (or so.... :lol2: )
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: cangrejo on July 17, 2011, 10:31:14 PM: The treat thing definitely works, we use small pieces of freshly cooked chicken and only ever for recall. Charlie used to be absolutely useless especially if there was another dog around who was way more interesting than us, we introduced chicken into the recall and boy does he come running - even when there are other dogs around :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Luke1989 on July 27, 2011, 10:09:59 AM: Thankyou this is some brilliant advice ! Really appreciate this help :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on July 27, 2011, 12:49:38 PM: I have noticed quite a lot of new puppies here recently and i would recommend that new owners start following these instructions from day 1, and make the most of the 3 weeks before the new pups go out and explore the new world.

I did with my Lab (now 21 months) and her recall is really good, far better than Taz, and i don't seem to have to keep going back and retraining her (where i do with Taz). I suspect some is down to breed/personality, but i so wish i had spent more time on recall when we first had Taz (my previous dog had never had a recall problem and I incorrectly assumed Taz would follow her lead)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Katie_and_Millie on August 27, 2011, 10:11:20 AM: Wow thanks, I am definitely going to order a whistle and try this one!

Any ideas on what to use for treats? As I don't have an oven/cooker I can't cook chicken and have been using normal treats bought from the pet shop to train sit/stay etc.

Are puppy choc drops ok?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Max X 2 on August 27, 2011, 11:05:55 AM: Quote from: Katie_and_Millie on August 27, 2011, 10:11:20 AM

Any ideas on what to use for treats? As I don't have an oven/cooker I can't cook chicken and have been using normal treats bought from the pet shop to train sit/stay etc.

Go for something really special, the smellier the better.
Mine love garlic sausage, hot dogs but will work for carrots.
Liver cake & pilchard cake are great if you can find somebody to make them for you ;)
Or you can buy them online http://www.klassycaninebakery.co.uk/store/index.php?cPath=142
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: seaangler on August 27, 2011, 11:14:03 AM: Quote from: Katie_and_Millie on August 27, 2011, 10:11:20 AM
Wow thanks, I am definitely going to order a whistle and try this one!

Any ideas on what to use for treats? As I don't have an oven/cooker I can't cook chicken and have been using normal treats bought from the pet shop to train sit/stay etc.

Are puppy choc drops ok?

As I don't have an oven/cooker.......How do you cook then!!!!!!

You dont need a cooker to cook chicken..... boil the chicken.....in water.. :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: MegandMolly on August 27, 2011, 11:20:25 AM: Or you can use a steamer to cook it. Tesco sell value precooked chicken chunks think they were about £1.89ish
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: KEV 16 on September 25, 2011, 05:31:53 PM: Hi Mark
Just been reading your quote and the success people are having with it, I have a 9 month old cocker called Jess.
She is great around house at recall but rubbish when we are out say at beach or park which is only places she gets off lead,
I am going to follow your guide to the letter but wondering do I need to keep her on lead during this time or can I still take her to the beach and park and use my usual method when I let her off lead which is wait till she ready to come in or take chance to put her back on lead when I get it. When beach is quiet I just walk her back to car off lead she does get in no bother when I tell her. Wish I had read this quote when I first got her.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on September 25, 2011, 09:28:54 PM: if you are going to use the whistle, make sure you set your self up to succeed, if that means keeping your dog on a line then so be it.
The key here is making sure you use the best rewards and build up a history in a variety of situations of getting the behaviour that you want.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: KEV 16 on September 26, 2011, 09:08:59 PM: Thanx will keep her on lead till completed your guide for recall,will be hard it gives me a lot of pleasure to see her running about enjoying her self, but I really need a relyable recall so I can walk her off lead in other safe places where I can be confident at getting her back to me when I need to eg when we meet other dogs I am not sure of or getting near roads.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Katie_and_Millie on October 16, 2011, 10:20:36 AM: Thanks.

I don't have a cooker/oven as I live in an Army mess, I have a microwave and that's it! I will try asking the chefs if they will cook me some chicken or something.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: black taz on October 21, 2011, 01:09:57 PM: My friend is in the army and the Mess chef has cooked for her dogs in the past.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: max2011 on November 14, 2011, 11:05:37 AM: Hi, For the last 4/5 weeks I have been training Max to come using the whistle. I followed Top Barks sticky and spent a good 3/4 weeks just using it at home and in the garden. I use chicken which I save only for the whistle. Max came every time so last week I started outside on the long line. Again Max came every time so I have taken him off the lead. He has been brilliant and comes back each time he hears the whistle (i don't over do it maybe just 2/3 times a walk). Once I couldn't see him anywhere so risked blowing the whistle and thankfully he came running back.

My concern is that today for the first time I saw him hesitate when I blew it. He did come but the fact he hesitated has me worried. Is there anything I can do to get him back on track to make sure he will come?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: c19unn on November 14, 2011, 11:13:43 AM: I have been working on this for a while also and now on my step 4 - I use little cheese cubes as he loves cheese and i have made sure its the only time he gets it - Its been great ! I shouted him the other day when we were out in the field - he started trotting back to me and then when i blew the whistle when he was trotting back he started running really fast towards me :luv: Seems to be working a treat hehe
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on November 14, 2011, 02:44:28 PM: Quote from: max2011 on November 14, 2011, 11:05:37 AM
Hi, For the last 4/5 weeks I have been training Max to come using the whistle. I followed Top Barks sticky and spent a good 3/4 weeks just using it at home and in the garden. I use chicken which I save only for the whistle. Max came every time so last week I started outside on the long line. Again Max came every time so I have taken him off the lead. He has been brilliant and comes back each time he hears the whistle (i don't over do it maybe just 2/3 times a walk). Once I couldn't see him anywhere so risked blowing the whistle and thankfully he came running back.

My concern is that today for the first time I saw him hesitate when I blew it. He did come but the fact he hesitated has me worried. Is there anything I can do to get him back on track to make sure he will come?

back on the long line and look at your reinforcers. Are they strong enough in that environment, remember food is only rewarding if your dog wants food. Wallace my fieldy much prefers the throw of a ball.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: grav on January 29, 2012, 10:14:19 PM: my dog is coming up to 18 months is it too late?? normally very good when younger but gone a bit too cocky now, will tend to ignore and wander off also if anything gets his attention (other dog) he is off, very annoying. Will this technique help or is it too late? Also as i work in the day my father will take him out for a walk in the day and i will take him in the evening, my dad will let him off the lead in the field and so will I, will this affect the Reliable Recall training if we are letting him run around the field or is it still ok? Or do we have to basically knuckle down on him for a fe weeks?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: terryd on October 23, 2012, 06:52:38 PM: As above really but my dog is 7 years would the same method apply ?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Jenna on October 23, 2012, 06:57:34 PM: Quote from: terryd on October 23, 2012, 06:52:38 PM
As above really but my dog is 7 years would the same method apply ?

We taught this to a neighbors dog who was 10 at the time. Worked like a charm! We did it exactly as written.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: jennycockerspaniel on October 23, 2012, 07:15:44 PM: Penny has a good recall thanks to you and comes to whistle aswell Have to buy a new one a piece has fallen out so I picked up childrnes whitstle in the kitchen and she came running for her treat I didnt expect as I thought she may only ome to her usual whistle.Sorry if I have gone off post.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Lesley M on February 21, 2013, 08:19:04 AM: Thanks for this info. Rocky is four months and will happily walk with me off lead looking back and checking where I am if no ones around. Any sight of another dog or person and he's off with no chance of coming back. Will be buying a whistle and start the training today. Many thanks and I will let you know how we get on.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: efc_barm on March 31, 2013, 10:33:18 AM: Took Gus out yesterday and went off lead. He was a little star. Came back every time even when he decided to go and say hi to another dog. At one point he went off following a scent but when I called him he turned and looked at me and then came running when I whistled. Question though, is the ultimate aim to wean off the treats every time or not? Or do the treats remain as the whistle is for "emergency" recalls? I ask because Gus is quite an adventurous dog who is quite happy to wonder. I like to keep him relatively close so is the idea to keep he coming back with a vocal recall and save the whistle for emergencies?

One more question - maybe getting ahead of myself here! How do I introduce the stop on a single blow of the whistle? Quite often I just want him to stop whilst I catch up rather than having to come back..

Any advice is appreciated.

Barm.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scooter001 on April 08, 2013, 03:47:21 PM: A bad day today recall wise! Scooter completely ignored me twice and ran to play with other dogs! He is 10 months old and was pretty good up until today!! I usually have a whistle but forgot it today which didn't help, but does this mean that I have to go back to keeping him on lead and restarting long line training again? :'(
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: jokersmum on April 11, 2013, 10:56:18 AM: Only just found this site / forum / and god send advice. Not surprised this topic has so many hits!
Have been going to training since my working cocker pup was 3mths [ now 8mths] but this recall explanation is the clearest Ive found. I have been really struggling with the whole process of the long line work and when to let off lead etc.
However, the instructions make a lot of sense to me and I'm going to take a few steps back to try to get my pup focused on to my whistle. I'm also not going to be whistling if there is a "no chance" etc etc!!
Huge thanks and will continue to check in to the site for further support. It was so good to read of other folk with same probs - I'm not alone!
Just a thought .....
Top Barks would have made a fortune if charged for this info. So suggest everyone who uses it puts a donation in "Dogs Trust" or similar for this fantastic clear help and guidance?!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Jenn on July 21, 2013, 08:35:19 PM: My puppy was recently out walking on lead when he was attacked by an off lead, and out of control terrier, that we did not know; Anyway my pup ended up with a broken jaw :'( He is six months old and had been brilliant at recall (99%).
First time I have allowed him off lead last night (after about 7 weeks) and he was hyper but came back as no distractions. I tried again today but no recall whatsoever as another dog we know was out playing.
Have decided to try this whistle method, just a quick question, which is the best whistle ? Not sure if to go for the one mark notes, or to try a silent type so as not to annoy the neighbours ?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: maddy74 on July 21, 2013, 09:12:41 PM: We use this whistle Jenn

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=whistles+acme&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=10037913661&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=961021&hvnetw=s&hvrand=776790457158101628&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_5g29zjdep1_b

You will find a lot of spaniel owners use this one ;)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Jenn on July 21, 2013, 09:35:20 PM: Thanks Maddy 74 have ordered.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: maddy74 on July 21, 2013, 09:48:20 PM: Blimey Jenn that was quick :005:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Jenn on July 21, 2013, 10:14:30 PM: We need to start enjoying walks and exercise again!!!! :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: butterflywings21 on October 09, 2013, 09:40:00 PM: A quick question. When they are on the long line, do you call their name and when coming to you blow the whistle?? if no response from them what do you do next???
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on October 16, 2013, 05:29:50 PM: you only blow the whistle when you are 100% sure they will respond :)
it needs to work. If the dog is distracted i find either walking backwards with the line or stroking the line buys you a window to start the dog on its way to you.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: butterflywings21 on October 16, 2013, 08:09:55 PM: Quote from: Top Barks on October 16, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
you only blow the whistle when you are 100% sure they will respond :)
it needs to work. If the dog is distracted i find either walking backwards with the line or stroking the line buys you a window to start the dog on its way to you.
many thanks, we are getting there. It's a long process but she's doing well unless there are distractions to close for her to ignore.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Rich-n-Chuckles on January 02, 2014, 01:10:10 PM: Such a helpful thread.
I'm giving this a go, whistle is on it's way to me.

Like a lot of people I have a problem stopping my lad from running off to say hello.
I've also got a little issue as I can't get myself to shout loud enough for Chuckles to hear me.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Emilyoliver on January 02, 2014, 02:31:18 PM: Quote from: Rich-n-Chuckles on January 02, 2014, 01:10:10 PM
Such a helpful thread.
I'm giving this a go, whistle is on it's way to me.

Like a lot of people I have a problem stopping my lad from running off to say hello.
I've also got a little issue as I can't get myself to shout loud enough for Chuckles to hear me.
Extra thing I did was to use the whistle for recall every time I fed my puppy. Positive association was made very quickly this way.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Rich-n-Chuckles on January 03, 2014, 03:50:04 PM: Whistle arrived today so we had little go before we really get into it.
Blimey it's as if he knows what he's doing. :lol:

As we were just testing I got him to sit/stay while I walked away about 30 feet ( can still see me ).
Called him then blew the whistle while on his way then sit and treat. 3 tries all perfect.
So I just try the whistle only without showing his treat, 3 goes at that and that's perfect each time as well.
Now I'm thinking it's too repetitive so we stop and then I try different rooms about half an hour later. Quick toot on the whistle and he came running each time.

I know it's early days with little to distract him but the signs are there to show this could make our walks so much better.

Quick question.
I can only do a quick blast on the whistle rather than the several do you think that'll be ok?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Murphys Law on January 16, 2014, 04:43:18 PM: I have been using Top Barks method now for two weeks.

Today we progressed to the field with Murphy on a long line. Brilliant. Flew back to me every time :banana:

The secret.....sausages ;)

I have high hopes that Murphy's recall is going to be so much better in a month or two's time.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Mudmagnets on January 16, 2014, 05:20:12 PM: Quote from: Murphys Law on January 16, 2014, 04:43:18 PM
I have been using Top Barks method now for two weeks.

Today we progressed to the field with Murphy on a long line. Brilliant. Flew back to me every time :banana:

The secret.....sausages ;)

I have high hopes that Murphy's recall is going to be so much better in a month or two's time.

By which time the price of sausages will have gone through the roof. ;) Seriously tho, well done Murphy and his dad
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Murphys Law on January 17, 2014, 04:44:40 PM: My son took Murphy out today (with whistle and sausage) and had 100% success too, where previously Murphy used to completely ignore him.

I was just thinking though, if they could invent a whistle that makes the same sound as my washing machine opening I would never have to worry about recall again :005:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: ILM on January 17, 2014, 10:16:10 PM: I've been following this process with Harold for four weeks now, he's sixteen weeks and Top Barks, I congratulate you Sir. I called his name and followed up with a couple of toots on the Acme today for the first time off the lead, in the back garden, and he came every time. Long may it continue. I've got a long long way to go still but I suppose I will be here tomorrow posting 'famous last words' when he decides to ignore me!

ILM
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: timborj on March 03, 2014, 07:45:19 PM: I need some help. My 1yr old cocker spaniel bitch has decided that she is just going to ignore any recall we attempt. If we let her off the lead she just runs around like she used to but when we call her using the whistle she now looks at us but turns around and runs off. Last time was the worst when she disappeared for about 40 minutes being spotted on ocassions but every time turning round and running off. We've now resorted to training recall on a long line still using the whistle but lack confidence in letting her off now as we are concerned that she will run off again. Any suggestions? She's great on the lead but rubbish off. HELP!!!!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Murphys Law on March 03, 2014, 07:52:05 PM: Murphy went through the ignoring stage when he was six months.

I started again from scratch following Top Barks methods that are on page one of this thread. I found the key was to have a special treat used only for recall (i use sausages) and only to whistle when Murphy was on the way back to me. He has come on leaps and bounds.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: r.schneider on March 04, 2014, 07:37:46 AM: Thanks Mark, I printed this out when we first got our pup and started whistle training at 3 months which she responded really well to. Unfortunately, my husband lost the whistle and I have only just got another two so I have let it slip!!! I am to blame and therefore will start the training process again as she has now reached pubety and sometimes does not listen. On the whole she is pretty good, but if there are too many distractions like playing with other dogs it is much harder. I know that the fault lies with me so it is great this post keep appearing to re-enforce recall training as after all the owners have to take responsibility and not keep blaming the dog!!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Murphys Law on May 07, 2014, 09:05:48 PM: Murphy's recall really has come on in the last couple of months and now will reliably recall even when playing with a group of dogs, something which I didn't think could happen.

I am still rewarding him with a special sausage treat and was wondering if I should be phasing the treats out. He does seem to be a bit treat dependant when I want him to do anything.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: kaz60 on February 08, 2015, 08:48:06 AM: I have been doing this training with our 19 week old puppy. I Let him off the lead for the first time yesterday, he Came back when I blew the whistle apart from one time when he saw another dog. Does this mean I shouldn't let him off the lead again until it's 100% recall?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Scott_Manley on September 07, 2015, 08:06:42 AM: Hi
Couple of questions:-

1 Are people still using this method? be good to hear if its bullet proof??

2, Alfie is 12 weeks now and 'normally' comes when hes called, I give him a 'click' and a treat but I'm thinking of getting a whistle and trying this way but I don't want him to think that hes not getting a click or should I just keep doing both??
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Joules on September 07, 2015, 08:43:04 AM: I don't think any method is 100% bullet proof :dunno: but this is by far the most reliable method I use ;) It is great for when the dog is further away from you and is a consistent sound, unlike screaming in the park :005:

It is a good idea to have more than one method of recall and clickers are great - you could still use the clicker when he comes back to you, but what about when you don't have a clicker on you? You don't need to rely on it for every bit of training you do.

Coco is pretty good at coming to the whistle - she ALWAYS gets a treat and not always when I just call her so she knows she will get a decent reward. The times she chooses to ignore the whistle or not come straight away is because I have blown the whistle when I am not certain she will respond or if the distraction is just toooooo tempting.

The recall will only be as good as the training - there are plenty of people on here who are better trainers than me and probably have a much more solid response ;)

So, basically, it is down to how well you train it :shades: :005:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Ben's mum on September 07, 2015, 10:25:22 AM: I used this with both of mine, with varying success, like Joules says its how well you stick to the training.
With Ben (who was 6 when we started out of desperation as he kept running off to eat things, chase things or roll) we bought as long-line, whistle and went right back to basics, OH and I agreed to be consistent in choice of words, how we rewarded etc. and we put in lots of training every day, with the most delicious treats we could find. Ben is very food motivated anyway, and the training was superb he actually got it very quickly, but we kept practising for another couple of weeks increasing the distractions. I would argue he is 100% as in 6 years he has never failed to come back to the whistle once, from anything :angel:. He also really changed as when we were walking he stopped roaming too far away and kept looking at us so we could do verbal recalls as well.

Harry is a different matter :005: I always argue that he was allowed to chase before he came to us, so already had a well developed chase instinct. He also is not as food motivated as Ben. But with all honesty I know we never put in the same work either. For the first year he was with us he was too traumatised to do anything, he couldn't even sit on command without quivering in fear :'(
But we haven't put in the same intensive training and it shows. He is fairly sheep proof (not 100%) but pheasants and rabbits are another matter !

I would guess that at 12 weeks is a great time to start. If I have another pup at some stage, I would just not ever let him think he can get away with not returning to the recall, and would use a long line to make sure if I whistle he comes back :D I think the problem comes when you whistle and they don't come back and they are too far away for you to get to. So small spaces to start, good treats, and use a longline to reel him in :005: and gradually increase the distractions. Good luck I am sure Alfie will do well
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on November 01, 2015, 05:22:18 PM: 12 weeks is a great time to start and the idea of this method is that your dog responds 100% of the time all through the program. You achieve this by constantly setting your dog up to succeed all through the training. I always say to clients that if you can't put your mortgage on the whistle getting the desired response then don't blow it. We are trying to condition the dog to do a certain thing when it hears a certain sound so we do not want failure or it would slow the conditioning process. One of mine dragged a long line round for five months before I was sure it would work when needed.
Remember, recall is not only about technique , it is about the value your dog places on being with you above all else. If you are not valuable to your dog then any technique is doomed to failure.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Mawddach Star on February 07, 2016, 10:11:55 PM: This post is brilliant - thank you thank you for "step 7" As my lil 20 month old bitch now and again decides she's had enough and wanders off for a sniff around the fields.... :'( BUT!!! saying that she's a hell of a working dog ;)

THANK YOU
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on March 01, 2016, 08:36:04 PM: You are welcome :D
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Londongirl on March 23, 2016, 11:47:02 AM: Just to chime in on this long thread to say I'm working on re-training Henry's recall with the method and it's brilliant. His recall was okay until he was about 5 months old (off the leash since he was 3 months), but it deteriorated rapidly and the 'come' command was clearly broken. I found this method on another site and started about a month ago, with an interruption for his neutering and subsequent restriction. I am still at the stage of using the whistle in the park only when he is already on his way back to me or when he is not playing and fairly close. I will be moving on to the long-leash final stage soon, but for now I don't want to risk him ignoring the whistle and self-rewarding by getting to do what he wants.

The other thing I did at the same time as starting this training was to reward him with a high-value treat every single time he checked-in with me while off the leash. Now he checks in far more often, and generally stays closer. The most significant thing I've noticed, though, is that the old 'come' command has been revitalised - unless he is playing with another dog, he will mostly come back to me now just with a call. It might take a minute while he finishes sniffing around, or working out if the other dog really doesn't want to play, but just as I think I'm going to have to go find him, he will suddenly barrel around the corner, ears flying, looking for me.

I try as much as possible to make him come to me, even if that means I'm standing there like a fool while he runs off with other pups. Sometimes other owners look at me as if to say: Please come get your dog. And of course if the situation warrants it, I do. But I know that if they move away with their dog and I start walking the other way, he'll come to me and not run off with them, which was a real problem before I started this training.

So now our walks are so much more fun for both of us - him running off and back again, off and back again, me striding along fairly relaxed in the knowledge that he really does know he's my dog!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: bizzylizzy on March 23, 2016, 12:02:02 PM: Thats's lovely to hear. We're having to go back to basics at the moment as hormones take over but if the ground work's been good to start with, I think its half the battle, so am optimistic we'll get there again too! 👍
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Murphys Law on March 23, 2016, 12:37:39 PM: Something that I have learnt from the Total Recall book is the reward lottery. Basically you reward high value treats for a successful recall and then occasionally you give them a mega reward of several pieces of roast chicken or something equally high value. Then, on special occasions you give them a jackpot reward such as a pouch of cat food.

Then, as the recall becomes more reliable you don't treat every time. The dog becomes addicted to racing back to you to see if/what he will be rewarded.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: pamplemousse on May 01, 2016, 10:29:58 PM: Hello, so pleased to see this thread pinned to the top on this forum, it's why I came here! Bertie, now 15 months had average recall, some days it was amazing , some days it was terrible. Now however he has been running off for too far and too long. I bought total recall and stupidly did what the author said most people do and that's not proof the technique and now look what's happened! Bertie has disappeared after birds, deer, all sorts and is self rewarding by doing this. I am so relieved to hear that bunging a long line on him and taking some steps backwards and doing the training properly is not uncommon and hopefully just what we need to do :003:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: BonnieScot on July 14, 2016, 07:17:18 AM: Our Bonnie has selective recall >:D

Liver cake, whistle and long line at the ready!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Joules on July 14, 2016, 08:40:13 AM: Yes, it is perfectly normal (for cockers at least) for things to go backwards sometimes and then the answer is just to go back a few steps and build the reliability of recall back up again. ;)

Coco is 11 next month and she is still a work in progress on a lot of her training. Stupid me thinking that once we had mastered something that would be it - typical cockers to keep on challenging their owners >:(
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Londongirl on July 14, 2016, 08:47:05 AM: Henry's recall was perfect for about a month after I 'completed' the training, but a few instances of bird chasing and playing with other dogs has set him back again. It's not that he never comes back, but he's not staying as close and has at times selective hearing on the whistle. When he first came off the long line he would turn on a sixpence on the first toot of the whistle. Now he comes back, but in his own sweet time. So he's going back on the longline for 10-15 minutes at the beginning of every walk, which is when he's most likely to abscond. When he's off the lead I keep an eye out for dogs I think he might scamper off to play with and try to keep him distracted until they pass. It's a pain, but I'm sure it's only one step back for two forwards and keeping on top of it by going back to the training will pay off in the end.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: bizzylizzy on July 14, 2016, 09:41:59 AM: With my previous dogs, I found its a life long training, all things learned need to be practised regularly otherwise they just get forgotten. Our boys are still only youngsters, there are still so many distractions out there (and self discipline is something I still haven't mastered at the age of 64!!! ). The main thing is they understand what we want from them, its all (hopefully) stored away in those little brains and once they've calmed down, it'll all fall into place.
(That hope is the only thing keeping me sane at the moment, so hope nobody's going to try and disillusion me!, :rofl1:) ......
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TimP on July 26, 2016, 10:19:32 PM: Will your training method on the first page work for a dog that's 5 years old? I am getting a cocker tomorrow that needs to be re housed and keen that it comes to the whistle. I believe he was trained originally to a clicker. Part working part show apparently.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Joules on July 27, 2016, 08:17:10 AM: Quote from: TimP on July 26, 2016, 10:19:32 PM
Will your training method on the first page work for a dog that's 5 years old? I am getting a cocker tomorrow that needs to be re housed and keen that it comes to the whistle. I believe he was trained originally to a clicker. Part working part show apparently.

Yes :D

If you teach it gradually and consistently, no reason at all why an older dog can't learn a new method. Make sure you make it worth his while though :005:

If he is trained to the clicker, you will find it invaluable to carry on using that for some things too - not so good for recall ;)

Good luck with your new addition by the way. Look forward to hearing all about him :luv:
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TimP on July 29, 2016, 11:54:13 AM: Thanks
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Ben's mum on July 29, 2016, 03:29:26 PM: Ben was 6 when we started and it worked a treat with him.

good luck with your new dog, hope you share some photos
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: BonnieScot on July 29, 2016, 09:52:10 PM: We're now on step four- the garden recall. I have to sneak the whistle and liver cake out as if she spots it she doesn't leave my side. :005:
I love giving her the jackpots too, and just make sure that I give them for brilliant recalls and not just average ones. Looking forward to seeing how she responds outside now.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TimP on August 03, 2016, 10:05:14 AM: Only a week on but she is responding to the whistle well. I let her off the lead for the first time on Saturday but on a huge Norfol beach. Yesterday in a large park and she came immediately when out of sight. Not over blowing and usually when she is looking at me as reccomended. Thanks again.

Zara closely followed by Archie

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Timbo2/Timbo2023/image_1.jpeg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Timbo2/media/Timbo2023/image_1.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: BonnieScot on August 03, 2016, 11:06:05 AM: Well done Zara!

How far away from you will she get on the beach? Bon will run for miles in a big space like that, especially if there are crows that need caught >:(
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TimP on August 03, 2016, 01:28:45 PM: Difficult to judge maybe 1/4 mile but then she will be looking for me if I haven't blown the whistle..
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TimP on September 07, 2016, 03:54:16 PM: Zara, 5 years old and rehomed, is now not coming on the first whistle. I have changed the treats, bisquits , cheese, frankfurters......do I now go back to square one?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Sumava Cockers on April 06, 2017, 07:11:44 AM: Hi Mark,

Thank you for sharing this knowledge.

Our boy is just coming up for 5 months old and does country walks with us off-lead entirely thanks to following the advice you have given. WE also use the gambling technique, which definitely keeps him very keen. ( Gambling = sometimes no reward, sometimes a small reward, and occasionally a huge reward)

Recall is now 99.9%..... There's always room for improvement isn't there!

Yesterday we had our first big test of recall when he bolted into a hedgerow around 75m away from us in hot pursuit of a field hare. Five sharp recall pips were immediately rewarded by crashing and bashing in the hedge, and the emergence of our little brown devil running at full tilt, ears a flapping back to me. No hesitation, no think-time, just immediate and correct reaction. This is the first time in more than 17 years of cocker ownership that we've had this level of control. Its amazing.

Again, a BIG THANK YOU both the three of us, not least Barnaby who, with this skill imprinted, will lead a life with far greater off-lead freedom than his adorable predecessor.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TheAdventuresofBarnaby on April 15, 2017, 07:38:25 AM: An update to our last post ( as Sumava Cockers)..

Yesterday's walk to the forest was accompanied by our two cats, for the whole 4Km walk!

On the way home our ginger tom made a break for it with Barnaby in hot pursuit. I let them get around 60m away from me and then gave him the magic five pips. Reaction was immediate. Full brakes-on, about turn and equally wild running right back to me.

This was the first real test of the recall, and we're very pleased with how it went. Thanks again.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: bizzylizzy on April 15, 2017, 07:53:41 AM: :clapping: - one of those YES! moments - makes the training all so worthwhile and a joy to watch!!!
Well done!!!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: TheAdventuresofBarnaby on April 15, 2017, 08:03:54 AM: Yes indeed Jayne, but were are ever fearful that he'll forget it all when the teenage rebellion sets in.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: ips on April 15, 2017, 09:36:19 AM: Sounds like your doing a great job, recall under such temptation is good proofing 👍
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Pup1 on April 19, 2017, 04:20:34 PM: Thanks for publishing this detailed program. My whistle and lanyard just arrived in the post today, and I'm going to print off the instructions and tick off the days. My question is: is Step 6 also 2 weeks? (Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Gazrob on July 24, 2017, 12:19:14 PM: I use a dog whistle. When I first got my dog I didn't use one. Eventually he would ignore my voice and only come when he felt like it. Now I've got the whistle he is much more reliable. I have also started to give him a retrieve as a reward for coming.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Natalielouise56 on September 03, 2017, 10:06:10 AM: This thread has been so helpful!! Our pup is only 9 weeks so we are still in the very early stages of training- only just about managed to get his collar on him as he just wants to chew it! Is there a good age to begin this training? Should we start now? Also, can anybody recommend a high-value treat suitable for young pups? Happy to buy or make :D :D
Thanks!
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: ips on September 03, 2017, 10:13:51 AM: Quote from: Gazrob on July 24, 2017, 12:19:14 PM
I use a dog whistle. When I first got my dog I didn't use one. Eventually he would ignore my voice and only come when he felt like it. Now I've got the whistle he is much more reliable. I have also started to give him a retrieve as a reward for coming.

As an aside I use a silent whistle (tuned just audible) for turns and close stops recalls and I save the 210.5 for a "get here you little **** I wont tell you again" type recall 😁 not sure how many others do similar but I find she responds very well to the silent under normal levels but if she is going"over the threshold" the 210.5 now having a specific "purpose" theoretically has more impact due to infrequency of use. Over use of any whistle command I have found to make the dog sloppy , I suppose its like your partner constantly nagging, after a while you turn off to it 😁
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Norton on November 04, 2018, 07:01:38 PM: Thank you Mark for an excellent thread. I purchased the 210.5 whistle after reading the OP.

I've had 14 month old Maggie for just under two weeks. Maggie has lived a kennel life for the past 13 months, and is taking to life "on the outside" really well.

The main problem with following the training programme to the letter is that she will insist on following me around the house and garden --- so in-house whistle training isn't an option. But it took no time at all for her to get the hang of open space whistle training, and so far, she is super-reliable at recall.

The key I think is to use a high value treat linked ONLY to the whistle and for nothing else, thus linking it in her mind to an unusual reward. It does work.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Top Barks on November 04, 2018, 09:51:57 PM: Great to hear
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: pablothecocker on March 27, 2019, 09:26:05 AM: Thank you for all the good information in this post from the OP and everyone's own experiences.

I am into the first week of this training with my 13 month old cocker, Pablo. Due to my own naivety i thought i had a reliable recall. That was until natural flushing and hunting took over in the last couple of months and now i find myself standing and watching as my dog runs off into the distance chasing what ever has took his eye (normally pheasants).

Regarding the training i have a few questions regarding the long line ...

When Pablo is on the long line would it be best for me to be in the middle of a field stood static letting him roam around to the length of the line? Do i hold the line or let it run free and grab it if he goes to far?

I have read on some websites that the dog can get awareness of the line and start thinking that it is a long lead.

Also, one more quick question, what duration did people do step 6 for?

Thank you for any replies in advance.
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: westergate55 on August 20, 2019, 06:53:31 PM: I have done this but just lately my dog has taken to running away in the woods further than I would like she was really good at staying near me and my other dog but not so good now took both to beach at low tide and she recalled ok I wonder if she is getting lost in the woods as I have not had her long and walk different areas some days I will keep her on lead in the woods for a while
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Shaun W on January 29, 2021, 04:40:59 PM: I’m just starting this.
Do I need to hold the collar, or can I just give him the treat when he comes to me?
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Joules on January 29, 2021, 05:06:24 PM: Quote from: Shaun W on January 29, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
I’m just starting this.
Do I need to hold the collar, or can I just give him the treat when he comes to me?

I'm doing the training with my new boy. I don't hold the collar - he tends to run back to me and sit for the treat. :luv: If I want to put his lead on him though, I do get hold of the collar first. Just do what works best for you ;)
Title: Re: How To Teach A Reliable Recall
Post by: Shaun W on January 29, 2021, 08:09:57 PM: Quote from: Joules on January 29, 2021, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: Shaun W on January 29, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
I’m just starting this.
Do I need to hold the collar, or can I just give him the treat when he comes to me?

I'm doing the training with my new boy. I don't hold the collar - he tends to run back to me and sit for the treat. :luv: If I want to put his lead on him though, I do get hold of the collar first. Just do what works best for you ;)

Thank you