Advice re other dogs' aggression to our cocker

[Woolwitch]

Hi, I would like to ask a bit of advice from you all about our dog and his interactions with other dogs. He is an almost two and a half year old male, and the usual crazy cocker - really lovely, a bit hyper, prone to zoomies and enthusiastic about everything . He's so lovely - cheeky with us, but never in a bad way...we have never had guarding issues or aggression towards us.

However he is intact and we live in London - the one thing I failed to think about when we got a dog was the density of the dog population here - and we seem to have aggressive encounters with other mostly male dogs every couple of weeks. I am really worried it is only a matter of time before our dog (or I suppose, another dog) is hurt. I tend to keep him on the lead when I can't see who is around the corner, so for example on paths through the wooded bits of the park, but I mostly take him to open spaces for our walks where he can run around off lead to his heart's content and I can see there are no unknown dogs around.

Our dog is pretty uninterested in other dogs, and is happiest either focussed on us - we have always played lots of games with him so he is always keen to do this - or just sniffing around, so he tends to ignore other animals. The problem is other dogs who approach him, and there are always some who do, often who are far from their owners. Our dog, due to past experiences with aggressive dogs, is very jumpy when these dogs approach, especially if they are larger than him. I don't know whether his anxiety encourages them to attack him, or if it is the fact that he is not castrated, but it happened again yesterday with a Weimaraner which approached and immediately attacked him until his owner reached him and pulled him off. This dog was castrated, so again, I am not sure how much difference this makes.

Are there some dogs who just attract negative attention? I feel like our dog gets more than his fair share of aggro - and I wonder if we did the right thing leaving him intact - our vet was all for castrating him but our dog trainer was against it so I feel like we saw both sides of the argument. I am not keen to do this now as I know that this can make a dog more fearful and may increase his aggression....maybe we should try chemical castration? I am wondering if this might lessen the effect of his hormones on other dogs.

This is going to sound stupid but is there anything we can do to lessen the likelihood of unwanted attention from other dogs....I feel like I am asking an impossible question! It's obviously horrible for our dog when this happens, and I worry about the impact it may begin to have on him, and it is also horrible for us as I find to hard to relax when I am out with him.

I would really appreciate any thoughts about this....I know this forum has such a wealth of experience with literally every aspect of owning a cocker! Thank you,

Lou

[bizzylizzy]

Hi! I do sympathise, its very upsetting to see them get picked on and injured when they’re such sociable  „innocent“ little souls, - and the ears always seem to be their Achilles Heel, easy to grab and bite!  We had the very same problem with Humphrey, always laid back and friendly but at the same time seemed to be a target for other uncastrated males and was attacked a couple of times quite seriously and unprovoked by the same dog at our dog club. Consequently, he has become very wary of strange male dogs and has adopted the Attack is the best form of Defence strategy!
He was castrated in the spring this year because of an undescended testicle, just before his 4th birthday. Its hard to say if the castration has made any great difference, he does seem a bit more fear aggressive now but its difficult to determine if that‘s a result of his previous experiences or if its due to the castration.
I discourage any close contact with strange male dogs but as far as possible try to put myself between him and the other dog if the other one tries to get too close. I‘ve really had to make a huge effort not to panic as I know my fear makes Humphrey worse and rather than reprimand him for growling (another big mistake), I do my best to reassure him.
It is a dilema and if you ask 10 people you‘ll get 12 different answers but my experience re castration so far has been that he does seem a bit calmer (although that could be age), he‘s not pining when the neighbour’s bitches are in season (although he still reacts to their scent, I think that‘s habit) but he‘s definately become more food obsessed and his coat has changed, I need to comb him through every two days to keep the undercoat down, although this doesn‘t always happen apparantly.
Don‘t know if this helps at all, hopefully there‘ll be a few more replies and some advice that you can use. Best of luck!

[Barry H]

Hi Lou - it's a difficult problem.  We all suffer from this.  I don't think your dog is to blame, neither do I think he's 'attracting negative attention'.   The problem is other irresponsible dog owners not having proper control.  Sadly, they're in the majority and there's not much you can do other than continuing to be proactive.   If you're going anywhere there's a good chance of meeting an off-lead dog, keep yours on a lead or long line.  Any dog/dog interactions should be on your terms.  Be aware of other dogs body language, and as bizzylizzy has said, if the worst happens always try to keep calm and put yourself between the potential aggressor and yours.

Also, be very wary of vets or anyone else recommending any type of castration for non-medical reasons.  It's just another way for them to make more easy money.

[Emilyoliver]

Hi, sorry to read you're having issues with other dogs.  It is no doubt difficult in high density areas like London and unfortunately i can't help with that.  But bear in mind that your nervousness/ wariness of other dogs can exacerbate sitiuations and make your own dog more nervous/ reactive.  I think cockers, being very lively and excitable naturally attract other dogs, so neutering yours is unlikely to prevent other dogs approaching.  That and the fact that about 90% of dogs IMO are poorly trained and many are unsupervised during walks which results in them racing up to every dog they see.  Usually the owner is miles away on their mobile...  Personally i've never had any of my male dogs castrated and wouldn't unless for a medical reason.  My dogs have met other castrated males and often they've been nervous, and some have seemed to attract mine and other male uncastrated dogs.  May be related to unbalanced/ different hormones in castrated dogs.  My suggestion would be to keep yours entire, and keep him close in busy areas - that way you are close enough to intervene if needs be.  Aside from that all i'd suggest is moving to a more rural area!

[Digger]

I agree with above.

I would not castrate him.  He sounds like a nice dog without problems so why should he be castrated because of other owners inability to watch their animals in a public place.

I think if anything, it could make it worse. Emily Oliver recommended a gun dog trainer to me (didn't help with my bizarre dogs behaviour ahaha) BUT he did say something very interesting re castration/spaying:
:Dog meets dog: sniffs to see what it is..hmm bitch in season, sniff..bitch not in season, sniff..dog full of testosterone....sniff...sniff...nope, doesnt appear to be a dog-don't know what that is=-fair game to show no respect at all..
I know your dog is not castrated but I wouldn't add this situation in to the mix as well by castrating him.
Your issues are probably no worse than anyone else's but because you live in such a busy area everything is multiplied. Have you tried thinking about which dogs are the worst problem and then making a note of the time and avoiding that time? People often have a routine for walks.
I've got a young dog near me that is being a bit dominant at the moment. The owners are fine actually but it only takes a minute. The other day my cocker was pinned on her back. The other dog is a huge American bully type thing-weighs about 8 stone.  I saw them yesterday so I called Inca to me and just kept her still by focussing her on a ball in my hand. I think the movement excites the other dog. He then put his dog on a lead and all was well.
I had to pick my dog up the other day because of a completely out of control boxer who had snapped its collar clean off-I don't actually think it was being nasty but again, huge and jumping all over my 13 kilo cocker..who was screaming. My friend caught the dog with my slip lead which the clueless woman had to take to get her dog home.
These are rare occurrences where I live though. I feel for you being in London.

[lescef]

I can't help with castration issues as I only have girls but totally agree with the other comments. Try your hardest not to show your anxiety when anything happens. I know I do and have made my fear aggressive girl worse. You have to try and treat it as if it was normal behaviour ( maybe it is for dogs?)
Strangely,  I do find that other dogs seem to be more attracted to her than my other not so reactive dog. Dogs coming over run past Bramble and head for Maddie.
I always put her on her lead when other dogs head for her. I throw treats down  for her and try to block the path and do lots of "please take your dog away"
Sadly, there are lots of uncontrolled dogs where ever you go these days. It is suggested you throw treats in the face of the oncoming dog to give you time to get away . I've tried it once or twice but it depends where the owner is!

[Gazrob]

Hi I know how you feel. My cocker spaniel Marley is also intact and he does get attacked from other dogs from time to time. I would advise against castration I feel that this won't make any difference and won't stop the attacks. My dog doesn't get attacked by every dog we come into contact with. I'll only castrate my dog if I have a very good reason to do so. Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there that let their dogs do whatever when they are on a walk. Castrating him might or might not stop the attacks they are pretty rare I'm just not going to do that to him.  What I try and do is avoidance. If I see any dogs nearby when out for walks I will put my dog on the lead and go in the opposite direction or as far away from the other dog as I can. If this is not possible I will sometimes pick my dog up till the other dog has passed. Sometimes its just not possible to avoid an unpleasant encounter with other dogs. My dog has one doggy friend who we go on walks with and a few other buddies but other than that I won't let him socialise with any other dogs. I don't think it's important. Try and find quiet places to take your dog I know it's not easy.

[Woolwitch]

Thank you so much for all the advice, and through replies - it is reassuring to read other people's thoughts and experiences. From what you all say, it seems that castration is a mixed bag in terms of the effects it can have, and that there are no guarantees of the outcome, and we have always from the beginning not wanted to do this to our dog anyway. The last thing I would want would be to make him more fear aggressive.

As regards all the other sensible suggestions, I am very alert to other dogs, and try and avoid off lead dogs when we are out. I took a more proactive stance with a dog owner yesterday, whose dog (it looked like a very large Weimaraner / great Dane cross, if there is such a thing!) tracked us for about 200m whilst its owner was far back talking on his mobile and seemingly happy for his dog to approach us. I shouted at him to call his dog, which he did, and keep reassuring my dog, who was definitely anxious (needless to say my heart was pounding but I hope I hid this from my dog!).

Thank you for saying that it is probably not my dog who is attracting more negative attention than other dogs - I was beginning to think we could have done something to avoid this, but it seems like it is just the chances of aggressive interactions are higher where we live. I will try having treats handy to head off other dogs if they approach - good tip. Our dog trainer mentioned something called pet protect, I think - which was like compressed air that you can aim at another dog...has anyone heard of this?

[Gazrob]

Woolwitch I think you are doing all that you can do really. Unfortunately you are going to run into problems from time to time no matter how careful you are. I suggest you carry a whistle. I have trained my dog recall and stop using the whistle and it sometimes comes in handy when running into problems with other dogs.  I will blow the whistle if I see a dog approaching this sometimes spooks the other dog and buys me some time and let's the dog owner aware that I'm not happy about the situation.

[Barry H]

...
I will try having treats handy to head off other dogs if they approach - good tip. Our dog trainer mentioned something called pet protect, I think - which was like compressed air that you can aim at another dog...has anyone heard of this?

I'm a bit dubious about throwing treats.  There's a pretty good chance that a dog may become more interested and follow you and/or remember you for next time...

I'd forget the compressed air, too.  The very best solution/deterrent is a high powered (preferably pressurised) water pistol.  This has four main advantages (1) long range (2) maximum shock value (3) relatively harmless and (4) amazingly satisfying.  A quick peruse on Amazon should sort you out...  (Optional: Say 'Hasta la vista, baby' in your best Arnold Schwarzenegger voice as you pull the trigger).

[bizzylizzy]

[quote author=Barry H The very best solution/deterrent is a high powered (preferably pressurised) water pistol.  This has four main advantages (1) long range (2) maximum shock value (3) relatively harmless and (4) amazingly satisfying.  A quick peruse on Amazon should sort you out...  (Optional: Say 'Hasta la vista, baby' in your best Arnold Schwarzenegger voice as you pull the trigger).
[/Quote

  brilliant!

[Gazrob]

So weird after a few weeks of no encounters with other off lead aggresive dogs ever since leaving a reply on here every walk I've been on we have had problems with other dogs. I put my dog on the lead but these owners don't bother and they come over and hassle my dog. It makes my blood boil. A guy hit my dog with his walking stick because my dog reacted to his off lead dog coming over to him. I think I need to invest in a high powered water pistol!!

[bizzylizzy]

So weird after a few weeks of no encounters with other off lead aggresive dogs ever since leaving a reply on here every walk I've been on we have had problems with other dogs. I put my dog on the lead but these owners don't bother and they come over and hassle my dog. It makes my blood boil. A guy hit my dog with his walking stick because my dog reacted to his off lead dog coming over to him. I think I need to invest in a high powered water pistol!!

- I think I‘d colour the water with indelible ink (or something even nastier) if anyone dared hit my dog with a walking stick!! That‘s disgraceful, poor Marley!!

[Gazrob]

Bizzylizzy well you can imagine I was very unhappy about this its got to a point where I've stopped taking him to the nice dog walking places in my neighbourhood because I'm very frustrated and angry with certain dogs and owners. I'm getting concerned about the dogs safety and also my own.

[Barry H]

So weird after a few weeks of no encounters with other off lead aggresive dogs ever since leaving a reply on here every walk I've been on we have had problems with other dogs. I put my dog on the lead but these owners don't bother and they come over and hassle my dog. It makes my blood boil. A guy hit my dog with his walking stick because my dog reacted to his off lead dog coming over to him. I think I need to invest in a high powered water pistol!!

Yeah, Sod's Law.  The water pistol post was not intended to be a joke, but a serious solution to a potentially more serious problem.  The only hassle is toting it about.  Get one anyway.  It works.  (And you have my permission to use the Bruce Willis phrase rather than the Arnold!)