Golden Cockers - is there a risk of behaviour problems

[LauraT]

I can only repeat what has gone before.

You couldn't get a more loving and better natured dog than Tia. She can be a bit over exuberant. But she's more likely to lick you to death than bite you and she loves people (old and young). In fact I don't think she's got a bite in her.  At a year old she had a serious operation on her rear leg (luxating patella) and when she was coming round from the anaesthetic she licked the nurses and was not a bit snappy.

I think people who suggest that golden/reds are snappy and aggressive have obviously had little or no experience of them.

[Shirley]

Another thumbs up for the gold/red cockers here.  My golden boy is an angel (apart from the barking  ) and is far more patient, gentle and palcid than my blue roan.  With a baby on the way, I am making preparations to ease Cooper (blue roan) in gently but have no worries that Morgan (gold/red) will take it all in his stride    The most important points made by others so far (and I couldn't agree more) are those regarding finding a reputable breeder before making your decision 

DISCLAIMER  :  Needless to say, my boys are individuals and I love them both equally regardless of their personalities    Even though Cooper can be an anti-social little bu**er at times!!! 

[Jax]

I can only agree and add to what has gone before. I have owned "Martin" a golden cocker for nearly seven years and we have had him since he was a pup. We were advised of so called "red rage" when looking for him and were able to find a responsible breeder who was more than aware of this and had bred her dogs to ensure a sound temperament. We were able to see his mother and a sister from a previous litter.

He has a wonderful happy disposition and has never snapped in his life. He is good natured with children, had been very tolerent of another puppy in the house and is not in the least bit possesive. I put this down to good breeding and proper socialisation as a puppy.

Good Luck with you little golden wonder!

[no time for this]

I have a theory that aggressivness in cockers is something which gets a lot of publicity due to a wide variation in what they look like and what they are. What they are, are dogs, decended from canis familiaris like all other dogs, including Bull Terriers!

Example you are walking down the street with a Bull Terrier, a young mother and child approach, she takes hold of her child and gives you and the dog a wide berth.

Now walk down the street with a cocker and the same young mum and child  appraoch, this times theres lots of "ooh gorgeous doggy" reach out and give it a hug / stroke. The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

What I'm getting at is because of its looks (cute), then people tend to forget that its still a dog, and not a real life teddy bear. And so when it acts like a dog (and not like a teddy bear) then suddenly theres a big gap between what people expect its behaviour to be like, based on their assumptions made on the dogs appearence. Thus a big deal is made out of its "aggressivness".

Any dog that has, as broad a mix of blood lines as possible stands less chance of been affected by any hereditary conditions, ask a vet which dogs have the least problems and S/he will probably say mongrels.Optigen testing for PRA prcd, is more of a concern for prospective owners than worrying about rage.

[Cob-Web]

I have a theory that aggressivness in cockers is something which gets a lot of publicity due to a wide variation in what they look like and what they are. What they are, are dogs, decended from canis familiaris like all other dogs, including Bull Terriers!

Example you are walking down the street with a Bull Terrier, a young mother and child approach, she takes hold of her child and gives you and the dog a wide berth.

Now walk down the street with a cocker and the same young mum and child  appraoch, this times theres lots of "ooh gorgeous doggy" reach out and give it a hug / stroke. The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

What I'm getting at is because of its looks (cute), then people tend to forget that its still a dog, and not a real life teddy bear. And so when it acts like a dog (and not like a teddy bear) then suddenly theres a big gap between what people expect its behaviour to be like, based on their assumptions made on the dogs appearence. Thus a big deal is made out of its "aggressivness".

Any dog that has, as broad a mix of blood lines as possible stands less chance of been affected by any hereditary conditions, ask a vet which dogs have the least problems and S/he will probably say mongrels.Optigen testing for PRA prcd, is more of a concern for prospective owners than worrying about rage.

I'm not sure Bull Terrier owners would agree with you; they get far more public grief about their *vicious* dogs than the average golden cocker owner - but I do see your point 

I notice you refer to Rage as a form of Epilepsy? I have seen research that suggests that this might be the case, and other papers that propose other theories  - but would be interested to see any more recently published research that confirms it; would you be kind enough to PM me any references you have please, Phil? Thanks (from a Genetics geek  )

[Elisa]

Another gold fan here  Bailey is just one big cuddle monster.

The only comment we have ever had was the lady that owned the local pet shop who said, on telling her we were getting a gold pup - " Oh I wouldn't get a gold one, they can be vicious.  I know three gold cockers that have had to be pts!!!".  This is the same lady that told me, as I was putting a notice in her window regarding my lost cat -"Oh I've heard cats are used as bait for dog fighting!!!" 

Didn't value her opinion either time 

[no time for this]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

[suki1964]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

All the research I have read has said that epilepsy MAY be a cause but as yet nothing has been proven. What I have read says that some dogs who are thought to have rage have been treated successfully with drugs to control epilepsy, yet others the drugs have had no effect. To me that reads that epilepsy although cant be ruled out, cannot be given as THE cause for rage

[no time for this]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

All the research I have read has said that epilepsy MAY be a cause but as yet nothing has been proven. What I have read says that some dogs who are thought to have rage have been treated successfully with drugs to control epilepsy, yet others the drugs have had no effect. To me that reads that epilepsy although cant be ruled out, cannot be given as THE cause for rage

This is true, and some humans dont respond to AED's either, but to me (and a lot of others) Epilepsy looks the favourite explanation for true "Rage" i.e. sudden onset without provoking incident, frenzy, and a confused animal afterwards or one showing no signs of what its just been through

[suki1964]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

All the research I have read has said that epilepsy MAY be a cause but as yet nothing has been proven. What I have read says that some dogs who are thought to have rage have been treated successfully with drugs to control epilepsy, yet others the drugs have had no effect. To me that reads that epilepsy although cant be ruled out, cannot be given as THE cause for rage

This is true, and some humans dont respond to AED's either, but to me (and a lot of others) Epilepsy looks the favourite explanation for true "Rage" i.e. sudden onset without provoking incident, frenzy, and a confused animal afterwards or one showing no signs of what its just been through

As you say  - its your favourite explanation - its not proven. Which makes your statement

The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

rather misleading and possibly untrue

[Cob-Web]

to me (and a lot of others) Epilepsy looks the favourite explanation for true "Rage" i.e. sudden onset without provoking incident, frenzy, and a confused animal afterwards or one showing no signs of what its just been through

It is certainly one of many opinions; personally I'm reserving judgement on the "cause" until far more investment and research has been carried out to develop the work already done What can I say - I'm a scientist

No matter what the cause, I think it is widely accepted that true *Rage* is rare, despite the horror stories that have been perpetuated for 25 years or so 
I also think that it has become a misused label, and (dare I say) excuse, to explain behaviour in cocker spaniels that is actually attributable to other causes such as poor socialisation and poor *doggy management* - which is just as likely to occur in any breed/x-breed as a cocker   

[no time for this]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

All the research I have read has said that epilepsy MAY be a cause but as yet nothing has been proven. What I have read says that some dogs who are thought to have rage have been treated successfully with drugs to control epilepsy, yet others the drugs have had no effect. To me that reads that epilepsy although cant be ruled out, cannot be given as THE cause for rage

This is true, and some humans dont respond to AED's either, but to me (and a lot of others) Epilepsy looks the favourite explanation for true "Rage" i.e. sudden onset without provoking incident, frenzy, and a confused animal afterwards or one showing no signs of what its just been through

As you say  - its your favourite explanation - its not proven. Which makes your statement

The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

rather misleading and possibly untrue

Possibly untrue - yes, misleading no, is there a better explanation / theory?

[suki1964]

Epilepsy is a mass of electrical activity in the brain, (the brain communicates by electro chemical transfer) and so one of the ways to diagnose it is to use an EEG (electroencephalogram), unfortunately most affected dogs are pts before they can be tested  as they have usually been involved in a "loss of control - attack" incident).

All the research I have read has said that epilepsy MAY be a cause but as yet nothing has been proven. What I have read says that some dogs who are thought to have rage have been treated successfully with drugs to control epilepsy, yet others the drugs have had no effect. To me that reads that epilepsy although cant be ruled out, cannot be given as THE cause for rage

This is true, and some humans dont respond to AED's either, but to me (and a lot of others) Epilepsy looks the favourite explanation for true "Rage" i.e. sudden onset without provoking incident, frenzy, and a confused animal afterwards or one showing no signs of what its just been through

As you say  - its your favourite explanation - its not proven. Which makes your statement

The dog panics and takes a nip, suddenly everyones shouting about rage! (which is a form of epilepsy, and not a behavioural condition).

rather misleading and possibly untrue

Possibly untrue - yes, misleading no, is there a better explanation / theory?

I really dont know - Im not a scientist, behaviourist or vet. I can only take on board papers that have been published and Ive not read anything that says that epilepsy is the proven cause of rage in all dogs that have been diagnosed.

[no time for this]

Youre right to question,( its the basis of scientific discovery), but in my humble mind, epilepsy is the best fit to the "rage" problem. We may be completely wrong to use a human condition to explain an animal condition, but we may be completely right as well! At this moment in time epilepsy remains the best explanation available. I already said that most dogs with rage are sadly pts before they can be examined by a vet neurologist or given an EEG, some dogs have been treated with AED's and its worked for them, for some it hasn't, which is exactly the same case for human epileptics.

[Cob-Web]

Youre right to question,( its the basis of scientific discovery), but in my humble mind, epilepsy is the best fit to the "rage" problem. We may be completely wrong to use a human condition to explain an animal condition, but we may be completely right as well!

But epilepsy is a well recognised, and treatable, condition in dogs 

I don't disagree that this MAY be the explaination, but like Caroline, was surprised that your post confidently stated that it WAS a form of Epilepsy - for a moment I was hopeful that I had missed some published research that provided an explaination