CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Insurance => Topic started by: allym on January 09, 2008, 01:26:50 PM
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Hi all,
Just got my annual renewal details through for Henry's M&S Pet Insurance and I'm a bit concerned. The letter says that they've changed providers and now use Royal and Sun Alliance which means that lots of the terms and conditions have changed. The premium has also gone up quite a bit (287.88, which is 23.99 a month) and the excess has gone from zero to 70!!!
The problem is that Henry had quite a few vet trips about his ears in the first year (touch wood, he's had no problems for the last year or so) and I'm guessing that if I move insurer, his ears won't be covered.
Just wondered if anyone else has had to re-new lately?
Thanks!
xx
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Not renewed but when I looked at their site yesterday I noticed they now give the option of 2 different covers :huh:
I'm sure they didn't before
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I am up for renewal next month and am a bit worried about how much mine is going to come to this year. Pringle has had 2 claims this year for her eyes and a grass seed in her ear and we now know that she has got cataracts so we will have to declare those. I can see it is going to be quite a lot ::)
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Crunchie - since you're re-newing and not taking out a brand-new policy, I wouldn't think you'd need to declare the cataracts. As long as you didn't know about them when you first took out the policy...
Yes, they only used to have one level of cover and now they have two.
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Have just renewed Lola's with More Than on line. Cost was £189 for the year which was a £20 increase from last year but she is only 14 months and we have never had to claim (touch wood).
There is a website which lists all the pet insurances for you to compare, but for the life of me I cannot remember its name or how I found it. Perhaps somebody else can.
I should add that I did hunt around for a cheaper insurance, but the cover wasn't as good. At the end of the day you get what you pay for.
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We have all 3 of our pets insured with M&S and the only changes we had (apart from cost) was having to pay an excess for each illness each year. My paperwork shows that it is Axa who are the underwriters tho?!
I won't move from M&S as all 3 of our pets have so many pre-existing conditions it just wouldn't be worth it to reduce the premiums....
Janey
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*generally* when you are Insured via a branding company ala M&S and THEY change the Insurers then the new Insurers i.e. Royal & Sun Alliance *should* take on the book of polices on the same terms they are at liberty to make rate increases (at renewal) but I am certain that they have to take the rough with the smooth so to speak. (sorry vague I know, but thats Insurance for you >:()
Basically, if you have made claims on your M&S policy and you dont think that another Insurer will take you on, you are best sticking with M&S :-\
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I am reassured to read your post Michelle - I have read a lot of scare stories on the internet since M & S changed underwriters and I have been agonising over what to do in July when Bonnee's policy needs renewing.
I have read that existing customers have had their T'c and C's changed.....does the FSA produce any guidance on how companies should behave in this situation? :huh:
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Rachel, no insurer can amend the agreed terms and conditions without notifying you and issuing a relevant endorsement or a policy addendum (sp) However, I am quite certain that if an insurer has taken over a book of business they have to continue cover - the price is another issue altogether but this can only increase at renewal :-\ I would imagine that the main issue here is pre-existing conditions and continuation of treatment - it is unlikely that they would be able to amend this in the policy, they can increase excesses but doubt that they can change this aspect - I will stand to be corrected though. TBH I havent come across this scenario in block pet insurance but have in household insurance. In household they have to take on the polices as per the previous contract so if you have been burgled umpteen times and had a £200k subsidence claim whereby no other insurer would touch you, the existing or rather continuing insurer would be obliged to remain on cover - in these circumstances however, it is always better to be with a Broker.
All insurers are different as I am sure you will appreciate - a fresh insurer or rather an actuary working for an insurer will look at various statistics from the claims experience and see if there is any trend in certain types of dogs and certain types of claims so say for example and in lay terms and very losely :shades: if there has been an increase of 10% in vets fees for cockers as opposed to only a 5% growth of business for cockers then the premium for that type of dog will obviously increase
I have said on previous threads on M&S that the bubble will burst and it appears to have done so. There original prices were extremely low for the comprehensive cover that they provided with the addition of the nil excess.
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Sorry to be a pain, Michelle - but as Pet Insurance is renewed every year, does that mean that the T & C's can be changed on renewal? So, if I bought M & S insurance because they covered a particular treatment, can they remove that cover when I renew (assuming I am not currently claiming for that particular treatment)?
This is the bit that bugs me; I picked a policy because of it's cover, and am now tied to that company because of claims I have made, no matter what changes they make to the cover they offer me in future years :-\
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Rachel you're not a pain ;) insurance is a complex issue and having been in the industry for more years than I care to mention there are still questions and scenarios that come up and I need to check ;) but perhaps thats me just getting older :lol:
Insurance is a contract between two parties i.e. you and the Insurer. Both have a duty to each other - i.e. you to tell the truth at inception and for them to provide cover as per the policy- I am sure that they cannot just take away cover that you have entered into a contract for but insurers are at liberty to change *certain* t&c's
So say for example they decide that behavioural cover is running at a massive loss - they will simply drop this for new customer but honour it for existing they could however, increase the excess but only at renewal date.
I will however, double check this point tomorrow
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I've just noticed that there's an exclusion under Veterinary Fees which says that if your vet is closed, you must contact M&S's out of hours service. So, does that mean that if you have an emergency in the middle of the night, you can't see the Vet without prior permission?!
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That's really interesting Michelle.
A friend has just had her renewal through, which shows the 'new' T&Cs. As her dog currently has hydrotherapy for arthritis, she rang to query the 'new' exclusion. She's been told that despite the fact it's an ongoing condition, and she has previously claimed, under the new policy she won't be able to claim anymore for hydrotherapy.They say that they are able to change T&C on renewal.
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Kali's policy is due for renewal in July I think. I may consider changing :-\l
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Unfortunately most insurance contracts are only for one year... so any terms and conditions can be changed ad lib by the insurer upon renewal as the original contract is terminated and then it's up to the customer to decide whether to renew or not! Only problem with pet insurance is of course, that it's not always quite as simple as that due to pre-existing conditions... >:( and the insurers know that.
Vera
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That's really interesting Michelle.
A friend has just had her renewal through, which shows the 'new' T&Cs. As her dog currently has hydrotherapy for arthritis, she rang to query the 'new' exclusion. She's been told that despite the fact it's an ongoing condition, and she has previously claimed, under the new policy she won't be able to claim anymore for hydrotherapy.They say that they are able to change T&C on renewal.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh this is what really annoys me. >:D >:D Hurley has arthritis as a result of an operation on his leg, of which we claimed for. As a result of the op he had hydrotherapy to assist with his recuperation. I have only stayed with M&S because I thought that we would always be covered for any incidences/claims that are related to his pre-existing condition ie if in future we needed further ops and further hydro - am I right in assuming that this is now not the case :-\
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I don't know what it will mean to you Caroline - only know that they have apparently now a long list of things they won't pay for hydrotherapy on.
I know their 'get out' clause is that it's an annual policy, but when it was marketed as 'cover for life if you continue to pay your premiums', it does suggest (to me anyway) that there would be some continuity of existing claims.
My renewals are due in Feb and March - and I'm expecting my 10 years old's policy to nearly double to £800, for in my view, an inferior product >:D
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I have run this scenario past an ex colleague who is more conversant with the underwriting of pet polices - unfortunately some chimp who was supposed to be fixing other computers in the office decided to break mine >:D >:( so I have had no e mails for the afternoon - I am hoping that it will be rectified tomorrow. Once I hear from the Oracle I will post on here.
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I've just noticed that there's an exclusion under Veterinary Fees which says that if your vet is closed, you must contact M&S's out of hours service. So, does that mean that if you have an emergency in the middle of the night, you can't see the Vet without prior permission?!
There has been a huge outcry about this particular clause >:(
I have just looked at the full wording of the new policy, and it states that you must call the M & S emergency veterinary line before you use an out of hours service at a practice that you are not registered with, or if you cannot get an appointment with a vet you are registered with and so go to another vet.
Someone on another forum has also had confirmed by e-mail that if you take your dog to your normal vet as an out-of-hours emergency, and your vet doesn't confirm it as an emergency, then the insurance will not pay for the out-of-hours costs, but only cover a normal consultation fee. :huh: I will be discussing that one with my vets :-\
Edited to add - reading the policy wording, it appears that in order to claim for dental or gum disorders, you have to ensure that your dog has an annual dental check-up :o
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh this is what really annoys me. >:D >:D Hurley has arthritis as a result of an operation on his leg, of which we claimed for. As a result of the op he had hydrotherapy to assist with his recuperation. I have only stayed with M&S because I thought that we would always be covered for any incidences/claims that are related to his pre-existing condition ie if in future we needed further ops and further hydro - am I right in assuming that this is now not the case :-\
I might be wrong but i thought that continuing cover for an illness was reliant upon the insured maintaining the monthly premiums - that infers that the insurer has an equal responsibility to provide treatment so long as the premiums are paid. I think they would find it difficult to argue in court that they were no longer responsible, that said they would be within their rights to charge extra excesses and hike premiums until it becomes uneconomic to insure for the complaint. ph34r
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh this is what really annoys me. >:D >:D Hurley has arthritis as a result of an operation on his leg, of which we claimed for. As a result of the op he had hydrotherapy to assist with his recuperation. I have only stayed with M&S because I thought that we would always be covered for any incidences/claims that are related to his pre-existing condition ie if in future we needed further ops and further hydro - am I right in assuming that this is now not the case :-\
I might be wrong but i thought that continuing cover for an illness was reliant upon the insured maintaining the monthly premiums - that infers that the insurer has an equal responsibility to provide treatment so long as the premiums are paid. I think they would find it difficult to argue in court that they were no longer responsible, that said they would be within their rights to charge extra excesses and hike premiums until it becomes uneconomic to insure for the complaint. ph34r
Sadly, I have just found paragraph 8 of the General conditions applicable to the whole policy, which states:
When we offer further periods of insurance, we may change the premium and policy terms and conditions.
Sadly, I think they have us pet owners by the short and curlies >:D
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And, anyone who is thinking of changing to AXA (who used to underwrite M & S), there is a really big difference in the policies:
The M & S policy states that they will not pay "any claims that result from any illness that your pet should have been vaccinated against. For dogs, vaccinations should be for distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis, parvovirus."
Compare that to the wording in the Axa policy:
You must comply with the following conditions to have the full protection of Your Policy. If You do not comply We may at Our option cancel the Policy or refuse to deal with Your claim or reduce the amount of any claim payment.
- You must ensure that Your Pet is vaccinated each year against distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis and parvovirus
They may look the very similar, but there are two key differences. One is that the entire AXA policy could be invalidated if you chose not to have your dogs vaccinated (even on veterinary advice). Secondly, my vet (like an increasing number nationally), follow a three yearly vaccination schedule.....which again, means that they would not be covered by the insurance, even though they have been vaccinated to the schedule that the vaccine is licensed for!
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And, anyone who is thinking of changing to AXA (who used to underwrite M & S), there is a really big difference in the policies:
The M & S policy states that they will not pay "any claims that result from any illness that your pet should have been vaccinated against. For dogs, vaccinations should be for distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis, parvovirus."
Compare that to the wording in the Axa policy:
You must comply with the following conditions to have the full protection of Your Policy. If You do not comply We may at Our option cancel the Policy or refuse to deal with Your claim or reduce the amount of any claim payment.
- You must ensure that Your Pet is vaccinated each year against distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis and parvovirus
They may look the very similar, but there are two key differences. One is that the entire AXA policy could be invalidated if you chose not to have your dogs vaccinated (even on veterinary advice). Secondly, my vet (like an increasing number nationally), follow a three yearly vaccination schedule.....which again, means that they would not be covered by the insurance, even though they have been vaccinated to the schedule that the vaccine is licensed for!
This is from the Healthy Pets policy
It is warranted that Your Pet is free from any Injury, Illness or physical disability whatsoever at the commencement date of this insurance (except as declared by You and accepted by Us). It is further warranted that Your Pet has received, at the appropriate time, initial and booster vaccinations against distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis and parvovirus in the case of dogs, against feline infectious enteritis and feline influenza in the case of cats or as advised by a Vet. All vaccinations must be administered under veterinary supervision. Furthermore there is no cover provided for these conditions in the event that the appropriate vaccinations/boosters have not been administered to Your Pet at the appropriate time.
They seem to be saying that 3yrs between vaccination would be ok as long as it was advised by your vet - bizarrely they are also underwitten by axa!