dog adjusting to new puppy badly

[Aggie]

Hi

Is there any one who can help?
We have a 17 month black cocker bitch who was extremely friendly to other dogs. We decided she would adore a sister and bought a blue roan. At first there were a few teething problems but no huge worries. The problem has got worse and Poppy  (older dog) is aggressive -jealousy based . We eradicate the problem and then another one develops.

After an incident i tap her nose and put her in another room for 5 min, then introduce them again. Then got told this wasn't a good idea as resentment would increase. I now shout very loudly NO NO NO , but today she literally needed to be pulled off has there was no way she was going to stop.

She has also shown aggression towards myself and husband when she is having problems. After an incident she is mortified but doesn't seem able to help herself. She is not spade so this is an option but I have read that having her spade won't necessarily make her less aggressive because it will take away her maternal instinct?

When everything is going well they are delightful together, will play together and even fall asleep together. However, the problem is becoming more frequent and I would never forgive myself if puppy got injured. I am already devasted, if anyone has any ideas please could you let me know.

Has anyone tried an animal behaviourist?

[PennyB]

It might be worth seeing someone, as its difficult for any of us to see the severity of it or otherwise.

Ruby was very vocal when I got Wilf and really sounded like she was going to kill him but he yelped occasionally and I often left them to it but I knew that they were fine (poor Wilf couldn't do anything without her jumping on top of him and stopping him from doing it when he 1st arrived). Some owners do think the worst and yet it can be quite normal behaviour (a good friend of mine had a pup at the same time as I got Wilf and she rang me up every night crying when she 1st got her saying her other dog was going to kill him but it was the same as what was happening at my house yet I could see it for what it was). Am not saying this is happening with you as online we just can't see it --- it could be normal behaviour that will settle or it could be as bad as you think, which is why you need someone else to see them together.

The other behaviour towards you and your husband could be for any number of reasons as well --- difficult to 2nd guess on here.

But tapping on the nose is a no no as this can create more problems as well

[Aggie]

Thanks for message.
I hope I am over reacting. I've been reading passed cases tonight and possibly I am being neurotic. I did forget to put that this is the 5th week of it happening BUT it could also be her season coming.
I am going to track down a behaviouralist though, just to be safe.

Many thanks

[Penelope]

We were also very worried as we have a Saluki cross, a Yorkshire terrier and in May we got a Springer /labrador pup.
Suki (the Saluki cross) played with the yorkie without any problems as the yorkie is very much the boss.  When the pup came along, Suki began trying to pick her up in her mouth and eventually tipped her over and got her by the throat!   We were terrified and pulled her off.   We spoke to our vet (who we trust implicitly!) and he said so long as Suki lets go when the puppy squeals, leave them to get on with it!
Now we have a very happy 6 month old puppy who adores big sister Suki!  Suki still occasionally puts Josie in her place, and the vet has actually said he would not like to be us if they decide to fight to see who is boss, but at the moment, Josie is more than happy to back down to both the other dogs.  However, she is always crated if we are not around to supervise them, and we leave her in the crate at night still because although I am sure they wouldn't mean to hurt any of the dogs, we would never trust all 3 of them alone together because of the size differences!
I am sure yours will be fine eventually - it is just incredibly scarey to begin with!

[Top Barks]

To help here we need to clarify a few things.

You say your older dog is jealous of the pup in what way does she show this? could it not just be the older dog disciplining the pup and teaching it some doggy manners?
Have any of these altercations caused wounds needing vet treatment?
You say agression is directed towards you and your husband what triggers this off?
what happens before she gets agressive?
lots of questions but as penny says maybe best to get a reputable behaviourist in to set you on the right road to harmony.
How long have you had your second dog?
Are you treating the first one any different?
Are they squabbling over resources such as food or a comfy bed?
My old goldie does not like my younger boys getting too close when he is in his bed or on his chair and he has told them off on a number of occasions, but i don't get involved and let them sort it themselves.
A lot of people see dogs going at each other and go haring in and make matters worse.
Dog fights are often all hand bags with gesturing and posturing that looks terrible to the human eye.
When I got my new black boy in February, he and my choc roan boy would go at it hammer and tongs and a lot of peole would have said they were fighting, but what i was actually witnessing was ruff play.they were actully having a wail of a time .
Please be careful with using any sort of  physical punishment as dogs do not often realise what they are being punished for.
As humans we assume they know, but this is putting a very human slant on things and dogs do not think or reason like we do. this slight tap on the nose may even be fueling your dogs agression towards you by making him uncertain of the cosequences of your approach.
Imagine if everytime you did something wrong at work your boss punched you in the face also imagine your boss spoke a foreign language and could not tell you what you had done to earn the punishment, how would you feel approaching your boss knowing you might get hit and not know why?
Bloody scared I imagine!
This could be how your dog feels sometimes.
Aggresion is the dogs way of making something fearful go away and if it works for him he will repeat the strategy.
Dogs do what works that is how they think.

Use time out by all means, but five minutes is too long.
30 seconds is ample time out and when the dog returns I always continue like nothing has happened
Teaching an instant sit or down sometimes works better as you are distracting the dog from what you don't want him to do and redirecting him to something which is more desireable and you can reward.
Get a copy of the culture clash by Jean Donaldson and the complete idiots guide to positive dog trainig by Pam Dennison to get a better understanding of how dogs and humans view their worlds differently.

[Colin]

I can't really add to Top Barks post, he's just about covered it all  - but thought you might find this book helpful...

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--Feeling-Out-Numbered-Patricia-McConnell-45-pages--outnumber

I've not read it myself but would be interested to know if anyone else has.

[MollieMoo]

I have Mollie a 16 month old black cocker bitch and 3 weeks ago introduced a 7 week old blue roan bitch who is now 10 weeks called Daisy.

Mollie is absolutely adorable and loving but she can become possesive over chews or anything she has taken from around the house - slippers, shoes, socks etc.  She lies at the bottom of the stairs and just gives me a look - like 'don't you dare take that sock from me' look.

Mollie has been great with Daisy since we brough her home.  They absolutely love to play fight and when they do, it sounds like someone is being killed!  My OH does try to intervene sometimes when it all looks and sounds too much, but I prefer just to leave them too it.  Mollie will 'tell' Daisy if she is getting too much, and I think it is crucial for Daisy to learn from Mollie.  Daisy has walked passed Mollie when Mollie is in 'her position' at the bottom of the stairs and Mollie has given Daisy a growl, just to warn her, but there has never been anything more sinister. 

[Aggie]

Thanks for messages.

Today has been a good day, possibly because I feel more confident about it all. They've been great, but do need to read up and be less ignorant.

Thanks

[lyn]

i have paddy,he is 16 months and ellie,she is six months.sometimes they sound like they are killing each other but,they are just playing.it sounds and looks really bad to us humans but they are having the time of their life.
i would just leave them to get on with it

[cazza]

I have Fern working cocker 7 months and Jock black lab 7 years, they go at it hammer and tongs and like you at first I was Ahhh what should I do interveen (sp) or let them get on with it?

I let them get on with it and on the rare occassion that I can see Jock has had enough is when I call them both and reward with a treat for them coming to me , this has stopped their play and they are distracted for a mo.

Once the treat has been had i take the oppertunity to Clicker train for a minute or two and by the time this has finished they wander off and do their own thing again but the vigourous play has been stopped on a positive note with neither one being told off.

[Dragon]

Hi, we experienced exactly the same problem when introducing our second dog in February

Incidentally, our youngest, Sasha is a blue roan and oldest a solid black. I wish I could say it has got better, but it hasn't. It broke our hearts as we were very excited at getting a second dog. Molly is still aggressive towards Sasha. She's never bitten her but is a big bully. We have been advised to let them work it out and not intervene. They don't sleep together or really play together and it can be stressful at times.

On a positive note, Sasha is a lovely, confident dog and has accepted that her company and affection comes from her human pack members and not Molly.