Dyllan and recall

[Top Barks]

 It all depends on how vital you view a good recall to be.
Take him to the woods by all means but why not go to train your recall?
As has been suggested use a long line and proof your recall before you let him off.
I did not let Bayley off the long line for nearly six months.
I could have taken the chance sooner you might argue but i wanted to be sure.
I didn't want 99% chance I wanted 100%
Personaly, if I could not get my dog back in the woods then i would train like mad until I could, in the meantime I would stay in control with a line.

[Top Barks]

working cockers are clever dogs and will try and work you to their advantage, Bayley is comical when trying to enguage me and encourage me to do what he wants.
I think cockers are not the easiest dogs to own and they need consistent and strong leadership from their humans.

I have just found the website of Graigour Gundogs which includes a brilliant "training diary" of a working cocker called "Tessa the Toerag" - the diary describes his perception of the unique traits of cocker when compared to other gundogs (it is easier to get a yorkshireman to buy a round of drinks that a cocker to sit/stay  )

He also says that the basics of cocker training is to keep everything a game - and he describes only positive training methods in the spaniel diary 

Steady on Rachel, I'm a Proud Yorkshireman, but i love the comparrison
Tessa is the spit of my bayley and she even sounds the same sort of character.
Did you notice he uses allowing the dog to hunt as a reward.

[Brimbeck(Dyllan)]

Well said Top Barks I'm a Yorkshire woman!

But I think the comparison is just right!
I've just ordered my long line 

[Penel]

(it is easier to get a yorkshireman to buy a round of drinks that a cocker to sit/stay  )

soo true - it's been the hardest thing with Hattie.....

[Penel]

Just read that diary thingy - it's good....
he says this in part four
Now for the important bit - most training manuals tell you to get hold of the dog by the scruff of the neck and haul it back to your original starting position if it moves off. However, with proper cockers, this simply just does not work - you have to avoid conflict at all times - no heavy handed tactics. To train a cocker properly, you have to con them into whatever it is you want them to do.

 

[Top Barks]

Just read that diary thingy - it's good....
he says this in part four
Now for the important bit - most training manuals tell you to get hold of the dog by the scruff of the neck and haul it back to your original starting position if it moves off. However, with proper cockers, this simply just does not work - you have to avoid conflict at all times - no heavy handed tactics. To train a cocker properly, you have to con them into whatever it is you want them to do.

 

My point exactly, what a wise man

[Jan/Billy]

you have to con them

 

[PennyB]

(it is easier to get a yorkshireman to buy a round of drinks that a cocker to sit/stay  )

soo true - it's been the hardest thing with Hattie.....

what, getting a yorkshire man to buy a round of drinks

[PennyB]

Just read that diary thingy - it's good....
he says this in part four
Now for the important bit - most training manuals tell you to get hold of the dog by the scruff of the neck and haul it back to your original starting position if it moves off. However, with proper cockers, this simply just does not work - you have to avoid conflict at all times - no heavy handed tactics. To train a cocker properly, you have to con them into whatever it is you want them to do.

 

Re this and the stuff about using games to train them etc. it makes you wonder about some trainers whether they all understand the way to at least get their head round training cockers or to pass that info on to owners.

[Top Barks]

I'm sure there's lots of trainers that don't but when you own a breed and live with one you get to know the ins and outs of breed specific behaviour and characters.
lots of dogs need training, lots of breeds so for the breeds you don't know so well, it's a case of reading up and applying general canine language and training techniques.
Dogs teach us so much and i learn everytime I work with different breeds.
I as a trainer would not claim to know the breed specific behavioural traits of all different dogs.
I muddle through with learning theory and watch the dog and get to know it as we go along.

[Penel]

Definitely - spaniels are so different to setters, and both are sooo different to lurchers - and even then - the different crosses within lurchers are sooooo different.... Gracie has whippet and bedlington terrier in her - never again  - whereas Barley, lurcher x lurcher  soo easy to train 

[PennyB]

I'm sure there's lots of trainers that don't but when you own a breed and live with one you get to know the ins and outs of breed specific behaviour and characters.
lots of dogs need training, lots of breeds so for the breeds you don't know so well, it's a case of reading up and applying general canine language and training techniques.
Dogs teach us so much and i learn everytime I work with different breeds.
I as a trainer would not claim to know the breed specific behavioural traits of all different dogs.
I muddle through with learning theory and watch the dog and get to know it as we go along.

I agree but you really have to dig deep to find this sort of stuff on cockers and often the average pet owner will go to see a trainer and I must admit I have found mixed reactions from them re cocker. I think the problem also is that the expectation is that they're an easy breed as how hard can it be to train one (people also lump them together with springers and other gundog breeds). In the same way if anyone asks me re rehoming cockers I will often only send them/point them in the direction of certain rescues --- someone I know who's been in rescue for a long time has learnt a lot recently re cockers and is amazed she never realised it before.

[Wendy G]

I can only go from my own experiences and I have not had a problem with recall with the Cockers that I have owned from puppies.I introduced the whistle from an early state,first getting them to sit with the open palm signal and then a blast on the whistle(this comes into it's own later when teaching them to stop/sit at a distance). You can also start using the recall whistle whilst they are still young,start in the garden with multiple pips until they come right back to you.You must give the right body signals to encourage your pup to return to you,get down to it's level and smile!, give it a fuss and a "good dog", this should be all the reward it needs.When you let your dog off lead don't allow it to just run off,make it sit and and only go when you release it with a voice or hand signal.If you start at an early stage you should get good recall, get a good bond with your dog and it will want to be with you.
I may sound pompous in this but it is my experience and I am having the same results with Bailey who I had as a rescue dog last
November.I am not hard on my dogs (I am classed as "soft" by the local shooting/Gundog fraternity) everything they have done for me has been done out of love.

[anita96]

Just to add another dimension, I was out today on the marshes with a friend and her lab and pointer, mochas recall was 100% ( amased to say the least !)  I was very nervous, we were up on the bank and could see across the marshs so for once I could actually see what he did at distance when I recalled him (as we are often in the woods and I am not always sure whether he is ignoring me or has gone further than I thought but did turn when called )  Now I don't like him going far and the lab and pointer only ventured 30 feet infront of there owner, but mocha went much further but still recalled when I pipped him and when I say recalled he was turning on a nine pence.  My friend was amased as I am always going on how bad his recall was.  So today recall 100% but far to far away from me, so how do I get him to play within my comfort zone, do I just pip him back at my limit or will that just hack him off being called all the time.  After about 4 recalls I put him back on the lead and finished with success, as I always have that feeling he will become to confident and bolt.

[Top Barks]

What do you do to make him want to be around you Anita?
I never let Bayley go out of my comfort zone until i was relaxed enough with him to go further As long as the reward is right then it worked ok with him.
Does he like to hunt?
If so lots of hunting games or find it for food bits.
Mine are easy and i can usualy tease them with a favourite toy.
I do lots of tricks,  stop whistles and very often i won't walk anywhere when on the common I just let my dogs work and play around me.i am constantly watching them and interacting with them.
i also use tone of voice to let them know when they have gone as far away as i'd like.
You need to have something or control something mocha enjoys,Will he retrieve a rabbit dummy?
Sounds like you have a very indipendent little chap.
Well done on the recall at distance, some people would give their high teeth for that.