uk show rules

[Sarah_S]

I'm planning on visiting Crufts next year and I would like if someone could tell me a bit about the judging system. I've searched google.com and way down the list of showrules (for hamsters , birds, shetland ponies etc.  ) i found a dogpage which told me about the classes and when you're supposed to enter.

minor puppy, puppy, junior, special yearling, maiden, novice, undergraduate, graduate, post graduate, phew...it's taking my breath away... , mid limit, limit, open, veteran...

Are these the classes I can expect to see on Crufts, or have I forgotten someone?

I think I know a bit about the CC rules, BOB and BOS , but beside that, what can a dog be awarded? 1st prize? 2nd prize? Is it only dogs with 1st prizes who get placed in the classes?

From which class can the judge pick the CC winner, and can nr. 2 in the class from where the CC winner came, win the RCC?

BTW who will be the judge on Crufts 2004?

I probably have a lot more questions, but i've forgot right now                      

[Jane S]

Hi Sarah

We haven't had our Crufts schedules yet so I can't tell you exactly what classes Cockers will have but they start from the age related classes (Special Puppy, Junior, Special Yearling) & go on up through win-related classes like Graduate, Post Graduate, Limit etc. Dogs will be placed 1st to 5th (VHC) in each class except for Open Dog & Bitch where I think it is 1st to 7th place. All the unbeaten first prize winners challenge for the CC which can be awarded to any of the unbeaten dogs, including the Puppy winner (though that's unlikely). The RCC is then awarded - usually the dog that has been placed 2nd in the CC winner's class will be called in to challenge for the RCC but this is at the judge's discretion. If this dog is called in, yes, it is certainly possible for it to be awarded the RCC.

The judges for Crufts next year are I think Gilbert Wood (Dogs) & Glenis Williams (Bitches). Glibert Wood has solids (also has American Cockers) & Glenis Williams is best known for the Wistaston English Setters (though she has bred Cockers too)

Think that covers it all - hope I haven't left anything out                    

[Sarah_S]

Does each dog get a quality prize? I mean if a very poor example came to a show, would it then compete with the rest of the class about the placings or how do you know who is qualified to "compete" about the  places nr. 1-5 (or 1-7).

I'm just trying to compare it with the scandinavian rules which i know, so I wont get confused   Here you have to have a 1st prize in quality to be placed 1-4 (in DK) or 1-5 (in S), while in germany you can have a 2nd in quality and still  be placed.                    

[Jane S]

No the UK system is totally different to the Scandinavian system - we have no grading procedure at all. So any of the dogs entered in a class are eligible for a place just depending on the judge's opinion on the day. Yes, the poor quality ones (and you do see them even at Crufts ) compete in the class just the same as any other dog but obviously they are unlikely to be placed as the competition is so strong.                    

[Sarah_S]

Wow thanks Jane, i' think I'm almost ready to leave now. I'll probably still have a million questions, but there's still some months left..

erm... here's one for example. If you don't have the grading system, u probably don't have written critcs either. How do you know what the judge thinks of your dog? Beside how he places it                      

[Jane S]

If you don't have the grading system, u probably don't have written critcs either. How do you know what the judge thinks of your dog? Beside how he places it  

No we don't have written critiques on each dog so the answer is you don't know what the judge thinks of your dog unless you ask him/her after the judging has finished As entries at UK champ shows often exceed 200 (specially at the Breed Club shows), we would be there all weekend waiting for the judge to write written crits That's the argument the KC uses for not adopting the Continental system anyway                    

[Sarah_S]

As entries at UK champ shows often exceed 200 (specially at the Breed Club shows), we would be there all weekend waiting for the judge to write written crits That's the argument the KC uses for not adopting the Continental system anyway

We dont have that many entries on cockers in DK, but we do have many entries in newfy speciality shows, and still we have the written crits  (the judge has a secretary). I really love the written crits, cause if you haven't got a trained eye, it's very nice to know why your dog didn't reach the stars that particular day. And a second opinion is always nice, cause it's so easy to be blind to your own dogs faults.                      

[Jane S]

[quote author=Sarah_S link=board=10;threadid=3336;start=0#31412
We dont have that many entries on cockers in DK, but we do have many entries in newfy speciality shows, and still we have the written crits  (the judge has a secretary). I really love the written crits, cause if you haven't got a trained eye, it's very nice to know why your dog didn't reach the stars that particular day. And a second opinion is always nice, cause it's so easy to be blind to your own dogs faults.  

I think the GSD people in the UK do have written crits at some of their Breed Club shows but only the ones that last over 2 days. I think it must slow things down unless you have a really efficient judge. I remember going to a Cocker show in Holland where the entry was much less than in the UK but judging took all day & the crit writing bit seemed to take forever I can see the advantages, just not sure how it could work in the UK (specially with some of our slower judges )                    

[Sarah_S]

I think it must slow things down unless you have a really efficient judge. I remember going to a Cocker show in Holland where the entry was much less than in the UK but judging took all day & the crit writing bit seemed to take forever I can see the advantages, just not sure how it could work in the UK (specially with some of our slower judges )

It is often slowed down when we have judges from countries who don't have the written crits... I went to a show in Germany a while ago. First the judge wrote something in hand  , then he told his secretary what to write. And finally we had to wait untill the end of the show for our diplomas, cups etc. And we didn't even get the crit! which for me was the most important! This procedure slowed everything down.  Sorry Germans on COL for this, but the show took so long and it felt like forever.  

How many (cocker) entries can I expect on Crufts?                    

[Jane S]

How many (cocker) entries can I expect on Crufts?

It varies Sarah but generally its somewhere between 300-400 Cockers which can make for a long day even with 2 judges                    

[Sarah_S]

and now another dumb Crufts question from me... :roll:

Do you get a pm before the show with the numbersd of dogs entered and is it possible to know before the show who has entered? with 300-400 dogs entered and judging in 2 rings (i guess) it can be difficult to plan when you're only there as guest  and don't know what to look for :? -well we do know ( :twisted: ), but we're not familiar with the classes etc.                    

[Dessie]

Hi Sarah

There will be published a breakdown of entries for every breed entered for Crufts but nothing to say who has entered I'm afraid.  If you are interested in seeing a particular Breeder why don't you phone them.                    

[Sarah_S]

I could phone them, but mostly I'm interested in seeing the quality of a class and it is handy knowing what to look for before ( :twisted: solid male cockers  :twisted: , but don't tell my girls......). Since I've never been on a UK show before I would like to know who I can expect there, I have some idea but I don't check all UK showresults to see who's qualified :wink: . I'll just have to speed plan when I arrive then.                      

[Dessie]

Hi Sarah

I would think that everybody that has qualified for Crufts will be there with there dogs.  I would expect all the classes to have quite a few dogs in them.

If I was you I would email/phone some of the Breeders to see if they are going to be there.

Are you coming over with friends or by yourself ??                    

[Sarah_S]

Hi dessie

Me and a friend is going to Cruft for the first time. She's already a cocker breeder and I am going to have my first cockerlitter sometimes later this year. So we figured that it would be worth seeing some high standard cockers on Crufts.

So from now on and until March I'll be asking (dumb) questions on this thread  :roll:  :wink: