can all dogs be taught a 100 percent recall?

[allylou]

Hope i have posted this in the right place.........

I have received lots of helpful advice on COL,  particularly in regards  to the recall problems we have with Marley. Therefore i am always interested in threads related to this topic and there have been some very interesting ones lately and this has set me to wondering.......

For the last 6 weeks Marley has been on a long line for most of our walks, and tbh i feel mean as i know he is just twitching to be off on a hunt or gallop across the fields, but as i struggle to get his attention while he is on the line i am fairly certain he will ignore me once i let him off.

This is me just having a ponder,  but i do wonder whenever i take Marley out if he will ever have a reliable recall. Are some spaniels hunting drive so high that you can't actually change/bend/fix it, only perhaps improve it?   
 

[spanielcrazy]

Are some spaniels hunting drive so high that you can't actually change/bend/fix it, only perhaps improve it?   
 

A hunting dog with a poor recall is useless to a hunter, so in gun dog lingo you will see references to "bidablilty" which is trainablity and the ability to focus on both the handler and the task. Part of the reason gundogs are good at recall is that in hunt training the dog is engaged in the process and understands that there is a reason for the recall, and that it is part of the hunt. Yes, it may seem like it is the hunting breeds who are most likely to bog off, that is because they get behind that nose and just go.

So what I have found helpful in teaching recall is to show the dog there is a reason for the recall. Of course treats are used, as well as something motivating, such as something thrown for the dog to retrieve; or to show them something interesting (that you have convienently planted ) and otherwise make there be an interesting reason why the dog should come back to you. I've found that if my dogs don't see any point to any given excercise in obedience, that they quickly lose interest.

[Cob-Web]

Hope i have posted this in the right place.........

I have received lots of helpful advice on COL,  particularly in regards  to the recall problems we have with Marley. Therefore i am always interested in threads related to this topic and there have been some very interesting ones lately and this has set me to wondering.......

For the last 6 weeks Marley has been on a long line for most of our walks, and tbh i feel mean as i know he is just twitching to be off on a hunt or gallop across the fields, but as i struggle to get his attention while he is on the line i am fairly certain he will ignore me once i let him off.

This is me just having a ponder,  but i do wonder whenever i take Marley out if he will ever have a reliable recall. Are some spaniels hunting drive so high that you can't actually change/bend/fix it, only perhaps improve it?   
 

Six weeks is no time at all for long line training; it took nearly 12 months of training for me to be confident with Molo's recall 

I would never rely on his recall to save his life; so I don't allow him off lead near livestock, or where there is traffic - but he comes pootling back quite happily when I call him away from other dogs, smells, people and such like 

Can you borrow a secure paddock or field now and again so that you can give him off lead exercise without needing to recall him? Your hard work will be undone if he is given the opportunity to ignore a recall - but equally, he will benefit from time off lead to sniff, track and explore in a safe environment 

[Mundyboy]

Six weeks is no time at all for long line training; it took nearly 12 months of training for me to be confident with Molo's recall 

I would never rely on his recall to save his life; so I don't allow him off lead near livestock, or where there is traffic - but he comes pootling back quite happily when I call him away from other dogs, smells, people and such like 

Can you borrow a secure paddock or field now and again so that you can give him off lead exercise without needing to recall him? Your hard work will be undone if he is given the opportunity to ignore a recall - but equally, he will benefit from time off lead to sniff, track and explore in a safe environment 

I agree with Cob-Web here.  You can not rush training a dog.  No two dogs are the same and some will be more responsive than others.  Mundy (5, show dog) does what is asked of him only to save any unnecessary effort on his part whereas Jenni (2 working dog) wants to please.  You might try the method I am using with her, remembering that you have to be consistant and not rush things.    Buy 2 whistles the same- just in case of loss. When she went out into the garden and I knew she was on the way back I would toot the whistle and reward.  I alternated this with "Jenni - come" and a treat.  In the house I would do the same.  When she could manage stairs I would go out of her sight, whistle/treat.  She gradually associated whistle with treat.  I then put her on a long line and walked her on the local playing field doing much the same.  I moved to letting go of the long line and working with her.  All of this has been on a daily basis.  The biggest heartache was the first time off the lead in fields but she watched Mundy and soon got the hang of it.  I have had Jenni 4 months now. Her recall is fair, she returns but sometimes is reluctant to leave an interesting scent at the first call especially if she can see me.  I have been lucky.  I could not have made such good progress without having the time to give and Mundy, my ever loyal boy.

Good luck.  It is great to watch progress made but you must expect some setbacks.  Just minimise any risk to the dog.  Stay with it and enjoy/   

[mcphee]

All the ideas about how I could have secured recall seem very sensible.  I am sure an experienced handler/trainer could have helped me with Rufus. Those that I approached just used the usual reward type approach, and up to 2, Rufus was just not interested in the food treats. I can see that making myself more interesting and engaging him with "plants" would have been possible. I do think however that some dogs are naturally more biddable than others. Rufus has always had recall in confined or enclosed spaces, and came back quickly on the long lead. Today at agility he did everything he was asked. Like one of the earlier posts, because I am unsure of his recall when we are out and about, he is only allowed off in places where there is no livestock, and where we are both familiar with the territory. Even so, if he gets his nose to a strong fresh scent, he is gone so quickly that as I call him to come, or leave, he doesn't even turn his head. This is my biggest regret. He is 4 now, and a lovely kind and gentle dog indoors. It is a bit tricky if you are a pigeon, rat or squirrel in our garden, however. I am sure you will be much more successful.

[Jan/Billy]

I don't think 100% is possible. Dogs are dogs, no matter how highly trained they may have an off day when they decide not to respond.

I do think given time you can obtain a very acceptable recall but it does take time and patience, certainly months rather than weeks.

[allylou]

Thanks, there have been some thoughtful replies. 

mcphee - I feel a lot of what you said about Rufus applies to Marley (who's 3). Also, i do think some dogs are naturally more biddable- this has become very apparent to me since we have got our second dog who happily trots off-lead and comes back in a flash at the mere mention of food.

Still, we will keep working with the long line with Marley and will try again with a whistle.

Cob-web -at the moment I can't think of any completely secure place Marley can run without him getting out - but your suggestion is a really good one - i will give it some more thought.
 

[september]

you can start in your garden! when Roxy was a baby me and OH used to go up one end each and send her back and forth between us, giving her a treat.

Also it doesn't have to somewhere with grass, we have used a tennis court too, very handy all fenced in!

Roxy responds to food and will generally recall away from dogs and other interesting things!  When she doesn't I shout 'bye then' and  walk or run away and hide (obviously you can only do this in a safe situation!)  She knows now that If I call her an she doesn't come after a minute or 2 she will loose me!!

I also recall her on walks just to treat and praise her so that if you need to recall in a situation they don't always associate it with going back on the lead.

However I wouldn't say she has 100% recall! she has no experience of cats and would chase one if it ran! I doubt I could recall her from that, its just too exciting!