Red cocker spaniel rage gene.

[Holly Berry]

Really glad that you are feeling more positive     Another couple of books that I found invaluable are Turid Rugaas's "On talking terms with Dogs :calming signals" and "Barking, the sound of a language". But the one I found most helpful is Jean Donaldson's "The Culture Clash" which Sarah H mentioned earlier.

We got Ebony Jan 2010, and she was the 1st puppy in 12 years and it was at times challenging, as like you I was used to calmer adult dogs who were very biddable. Now as I type both mine are lying either side of me totally chilled. 

[spanielcrazy]

Yes, you do sound much better, that's great and will help the situation loads of you are feeling calm and in control 

I assume that the noise he is making is growling? I would completely ignore that for now and focus on the behaviour. Some cockers are talkers and grumblers, but trying to supress that can often make the situation more difficult. If you just pretend you are deaf  and carry on it will often resolve itself.

Don't forget, he is a baby puppy, you want to keep things upbeat and positive (even if you have to grit your teeth to do it  ) he will respond positively. Most all aggression is fear and/or stress, so keep it light an upbeat; "Oh, you silly thing!" 

  Another couple of books that I found invaluable are Turid Rugaas's "On talking terms with Dogs :calming signals" and "Barking, the sound of a language".

Absolutely agree, especially "On Talking Terms"  One thing you can do that sounds so simple and daft, yet is really so powerful is licking your lips, which is a calming signal for dogs. Try it for a while, it's pretty amazing!

For example, if you are going to put his collar on, lick your lips as you approach him, and do it while you are putting on his collar (which you are doing gently and calmly) Just slow all your motions down and lick your lips. To start with you will do it almost continuously then after a while you won't need to do it so much (and yes, you will feel like a numpty at first  but when you see how effective it is you soon won't worry about it! In fact it is so powerful and has become such a habit with me for my grooming clients that I find myself doing it in my human encounters! 

http://theartofdog.com/articles/calming.pdf

http://dogtime.com/lip-lick-tongue-flick-dog-speak-colleen-safford.html

[Jackie]

No its not growling, as my OH puts it, its more like a wild cat sound.

Even after ten days I am still very hesitant in putting his collar on, I have to pick my moment, and even that fails if he turns his head and I fear or feel the slightest of a nip. We have a walk/car harness ready for Tuesdays training sessions ( we will be travelling on the motorway ) and we need to get it adjusted  to fit him, as I dont think I will be comfortable now with him sitting on my lap in the back of the car, ( Oh is doing the driving. ) But I am getting more confidant day by day, fingers crossed it never happens again, otherwise I shall be back where I started.

[tillydog]

Dont forget too that your pup will be picking up on your anxiety, so if you're pre-empting (scuse my spelling) a nip before he's even done anything, he'll be picking up on that.

[Catie74]

Hope all goes well in tonights class Jackie.  I'm sure Toby will be settled on no time. 

[dottysmum]

With regards to the 'wild cat' sound, it is a completely normal noise for a young pup to be making. If you observe a litter of puppies at play with the usual rough housing then this is the noise they make, it does sound alarming and savage but it doesn't mean that the pup is aggressive.
All of mine have done this as pups especially when excited, it just means that you have a confident, head strong pup and when excited he is treating you as he treated his litter mates.
Using positive training methods will work but give him time as he is still very young.
I hope you can start to enjoy him as they are puppies for too short a time.
Good Luck and stay positive!

[Jackie]

Hi everyone just popped in for a Toby progress report.
One thing I omitted to mentioned in my opening topic. The bite I received from Toby was one inch to the side and above my veins in my wrist, at the lower end of my thumb joint, this was why I was feeling so fearful of him the first few days afterwards, maybe had the bite been elsewhere it would not have had the same effect.
The good news is, that I am now starting to "like" him again and think we are starting to bond. If I am honest, even the few weeks leading up to the bite, when both myself and OH started to believe that Toby had this rage gene, I was starting to dislike him and again if I'm honest, also was rejecting him.

We have both noticed an improvement, and I can honestly put that down to finding this forum. Firstly the amount of advice you all have given and all so positive, has put me in a different frame of mind, I have looked for the good, lovable signs rather than the bad, hateful signs of past. We have both noticed that Toby all of a sudden is becoming a more "adult" puppy. We have been allowing him much longer out of his cage, we no longer use the cage as a form of punishment, and we are both working together as regards to training him both at home and now at the training venue.

We have not long reached home after his hour long first training session. I have been very impressed with our venue, our instructor (Heather) with Toby himself, as he showed no signs of aggression with the other six or seven puppies. The training went very well, we have a lot of homework to do this week, but I shall persevere as he is definitely trainable. I also had him on my lap ( his head resting on my shoulder) in the back of the car with no biting or nipping whatsoever. Think he was tired and worn out. I am so looking forward to next weeks lessons. Here is the link to his training venue......

http://www.thefamilydog.co.uk/about-clare-lang-atkinson.html

[MegandMolly]

Glad to hear things are going so well for you now 

Enjoy your pupster 

[pipkoi]

That sounds like a really positive start. Well done all of you.

[Ninasmum]

So pleased for you & Toby 
You sound so much more positive about him 
I strongly believe that a pupster/dog will pick up on vibes from their owners & even sense if they are not liked    it now seems like Toby is far happier because of your positive attitude   
Wishing you good luck with the little fella 

[tillydog]

Brilliant news Jackie! 

[Dunton4]

Well done Jackie (and Toby  )  I'm impressed with your training venue - how cool is that yurt    The trainers all sound well-qualified and real dog-lovers - and top dog Drago is extremely handsome!  I'm sure you'll have lots of fun training Toby - he sounds like a very intelligent boy with bags of energy who needs that intelligence channelling into positive activities. 

I remember my Tilly being a shock to my system when she was a pup - she launched herself into my containers of flowers, flattening the lot, she dug up everything in the garden, she nipped and barked, she ripped my daughter's favourite pair of trousers from knee to hem, chewed the zip out of a brand-new pair of boots and was frankly a right little pain at times.  But she was only a baby and is now a fabulous precious girl of nearly 8 - the best dog in the world  .  We did lots of training and I think that really helps those active little brains and creates a strong bond between the two of you.

Good luck to you both and enjoy!

Sue and Tilly

[PennyB]

No its not growling, as my OH puts it, its more like a wild cat sound.

Even after ten days I am still very hesitant in putting his collar on, I have to pick my moment, and even that fails if he turns his head and I fear or feel the slightest of a nip. We have a walk/car harness ready for Tuesdays training sessions ( we will be travelling on the motorway ) and we need to get it adjusted  to fit him, as I dont think I will be comfortable now with him sitting on my lap in the back of the car, ( Oh is doing the driving. ) But I am getting more confidant day by day, fingers crossed it never happens again, otherwise I shall be back where I started.

don't know if you saw my bit re a similar pup I had on foster - where I did things like this in stages - 1st getting him to sit then treating etc. (I used the large bonio square biscuits that took longer to chew  ) step by step i did it without getting bitten - if you do things hesitantly and in a rush he will sense your anxiety

[Jeanette]

No its not growling, as my OH puts it, its more like a wild cat sound.

Does it sound like a gargling high noise?  

If it is, then its the same noise Quinn does when he's launching himself at my older cocker to try and get her to play.   Its a horrible sound but am used to it now, to me it sounds like he's gargling/warbling 

[Jackie]

Thank you all for your help and advice, we are ready and prepared to try anything that is suggested, at the end of the day we both want to get it right,and have a happy and successful relationship with our Toby.
OH was out walking the other two dogs the other day, and as it was approaching Toby's next feed I could not wait any longer for him to get back, regards taking Toby for his walk, so I hunted for a pair of OHs thick gloves (to protect my wrists) and while wearing them managed to attach his collar and lead, not in my wildest dreams would I ever had expected it would come to this   but I shall be looking for a simpler and more natural way to deal with this problem in the future, ie: Linda Tellington-Jones TT-Touch book which we now have.