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Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: tritonx on April 19, 2020, 06:23:00 PM

Title: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on April 19, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
And hello all again. It's a year since I last reported on Fraser having an upset tummy that took a while to subside and he seems now to have a chronic bowel issue. Most of the time, though stool is normal shape, it can be black on the outside and/or showing a trace of bloody mucus at the end. I've become an expert on the travels of dog food through canine gut from peering at so much of it  :P He's been back to the vet a couple of times as the condition continues, on/off antibiotic, last suggestion-roughage, so daily pumpkin, but the blood is still there. And by the  way, a pandemic since I talked to you last! I hope you're all hanging in during isolation as we are doing over here in Canada.

Back to Fraser. He's fine in himself, doesn't seem in pain, enjoys his morning frisbee, eats enthusiastically, loves his walkies, but he poops three times per walk with the trace bloody mucus at the end. Since it's been going on for a year (my posts here turned out to be a valuable record of what was happening last March, yay, CO!), I sent an email to my vet to ask if this is a condition that is chronic, but low level and just has to be put up with or should he be under treatment of some kind.) He phoned back and said it appears he has an inflamed gut that's bleeding and he can be given (can't remember, but meds of some sort), but to find out what's going on an ultrasound and endoscopy would be needed eventually. I asked if they would probably be inevitable at some point and he said yes. So I asked him to send me an estimate of costs for the procedures. Deep breath: $5000. And that's just to find out what's going on in there and not even actual treatment for the condition.

I know there must be other cocker owners here whose pets have had something like this, so I'd be interested in hearing how it went, what treatments were given and whether ultrasound and endoscopy were part of it.

Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on April 20, 2020, 03:08:24 PM
Sorry to hear you are struggling with Fraser, while Ollie has never had any tests or blood in stool, he tends to have period of inflammed stomach resulting in loose muscus stools and coughs up bile and our vet suggested bio(live)yoghurt (plain no sweetner).  So for last 18 months or so he has had a dessert spoonful in his meal....then managed to find a night time cookie that has bio yoghurt and calomine in it so two at night and his tummy is more settled.

If he has a real flare up it is slippery elm (tree bark powder) mixed in dessert spoon yoghurt with a small pinch sugar or drop honey....it is my go to remedy...it is worth looking up and reading about. I use for about 3 to 4 days then just keep going with the live yoghurt on his food.

Do hope all is well in Canada with this blasted Covid and I am sure we all send our sympathy at the great sadness and shock you are feeling with the incident in Nova Scotia.

Do take care and hope Fraser picks up soon
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: bizzylizzy on April 20, 2020, 04:00:44 PM


Do hope all is well in Canada with this blasted Covid and I am sure we all send our sympathy at the great sadness and shock you are feeling with the incident in Nova Scotia.

Do take care and hope Fraser picks up soon

Just wanted to second that! What a crazy world we‘re living in right now! 
I‘m sorry, I have no advice to offer regarding poor Fraser‘s tummy but I hope you can get some help for him soon! Maybe a second opinion might be an option?
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on April 20, 2020, 07:00:29 PM
I’m listening to the RCMP briefing just now. The sense of sadness and shock is awful, that on top of the loss of so many people dying alone in care homes, hospitals and in their own homes from Covid, the loss of a sense of security in life as well as freedom to be with other people and live our lives normally, that some madman should add to the suffering is unspeakable. I must say, while I’m not a big fan of Justin Trudeau, he’s risen to the occasion through all of this by reassuring the country that the government will do the right things to help fill the needs of those unemployed, businesses that are faltering, hospitals that need equipment and that Canadians will get through this together by helping each other. He’s struck the right notes and it does help.

As for Fraser, he’s not showing any symptoms other than the persistent evidence of trace blood in the stool. $5000, as you can imagine, is a huge amount of money to contemplate, especially as that’s only the opening amount for ongoing treatment arising out of whatever they find. There’s a calculation I have to make with his pet insurance. I’ve already paid the deductible for this year which is high because he’s getting old. If I hold off on the investigative procedures, I risk going into the next year and I’d have $500 deducted from whatever payout the insurance will cover. So, it’s a balance between trying more conservative approaches such as the ones you’ve suggested and whatever treatments the vet thinks will help his condition, or biting the bullet and investigating now before the next deductible kicks in. What matters most is that I keep my boy healthy, but it’s a careful path to pick through.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: phoenix on April 20, 2020, 07:12:05 PM
Have you ever tried  slippery elm powder?   It’s a mucilage. Soothing for inflammation, and coats the gut with mucous  to protect ulceration. .  I used it with Bobby cocker for a week when antibiotics didn’t work. He had haemorrhaging enteritis, and it healed up .
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on April 27, 2020, 12:18:51 AM
I did ask the vet about slippery elm, but he said there was no clinical backup for its use. I never know exactly what to use in the way of natural products. There are no proper scientific studies that show echinacea being effective, but I use it and it sure feels like it stops colds etc. from getting started. So I go with placebo effect; if it works, good enough. However, vet has prescribed metronidazole, so I guess I'll see how it goes with Fraser. When he had quite a persistent tummy upset last year and he was put on antibiotics, I asked about using yoghurt to restore Fraser's gut flora, but he said there wasn't a high enough concentration in yoghurt to do the job. So once again, I don't know. I just hope the blood leakage stops and I can stop worrying that it's something more dangerous happening inside which, of course, I won't be able to determine unless he goes for the ultrasound and scope.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Mari on April 27, 2020, 08:48:48 AM
When he had quite a persistent tummy upset last year and he was put on antibiotics, I asked about using yoghurt to restore Fraser's gut flora, but he said there wasn't a high enough concentration in yoghurt to do the job.

There are probiotic products specifically for dogs, these are more effective than yoghurt. Vet should sell them, or pet pharmacy. Pro-Kolin or Diarsanyl or ZooLac for example  :blink:

Edit: Maybe best to ask vet about this first since Fraser has a chronic issue. But these products are sold over the counter at my vets. Hope you can find something that helps him!
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on April 27, 2020, 10:31:36 AM
Firstly I am not sure about Canadian vets and how they work regarding supplermentary medicine and views.  My vets is very much if it does no harm etc, and slippery elm helps my little guy, but he has never had to go done the antibotic road so Fraser is on Metronidazole which is an antibotic which is used for certain conditions such as bacterial infections.  I personally always get a ladies ;) reaction when taking antibotics and yep I go to yoghurt and an Actimel/Yakult drink daily so as to avert taking another prescribed medication .  The worst reaction by far was after taking Flagyl for tooth abcess, it worked wonders on the abcess though.

I would go down the yoghurt route - maybe it is not as strong but it cant hurt.  As for the vet I would ask about probiotic as Mari suggests.

Flagyl ( Metronidazole) is a frontline and well established drug - but can upset the flora.

Hope that Fraser is feeling better soon.

Flagyl(Metronidazole)
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Mari on April 27, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Just something to keep in mind about yoghurt. I agree it's mostly harmless and potentially helpful, but most adult animals, including dogs, are lactose intolerant to some degree. I don't know that I would use regular yoghurt for a dog that already struggles with tummy issues. I am lactose intolerant myself and it took me a while to understand that yoghurts were doing me no favours despite the probiotics in them :005:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: ejp on April 27, 2020, 05:49:14 PM
I have used slippery elm for myself and Daisy when needed.  Certainly agree with the placebo effect for myself, but not for Daisy!  It did help her.  I used to give my previous cockers goat's milk, as Bertie in particular, loved a drink of milk and I was aware of the lactose problem, so tried to minimise it.  Certainly didn't have any issues with it, so maybe a goats milk yoghurt if you can get it.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on April 29, 2020, 12:50:25 AM
I've used the probiotic powder they sell at the vets over the counter in the past after antibiotic, so I'll use it again when he's done this current course of antibiotic. He's 3 days in and still a little blood showing in the stool. He's on half a pill every 12 hours for 5 days and then 1/2 pill every day until they're finished.  There goes weaning him off his hold over cheese habit in the evening due to last antibiotic treatment. Over time I'd traded it out for his regular healthier treat. He noticeably brightened when I pulled out the Brie at pill time as if his little mind said, Hello, my old friend. I've missed you.  :005:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: phoenix on April 29, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Vets can’t be responsible for recommended herbal remedies like slippery elm. However, it is heartily endorsed by the support groups for people with IBD , Crohns and ulcerative colitis.  Bleeding, which is the dark coating, means inflammation,  so the mucilage from SE , which is like wallpaper paste, is soothing and healing. No side effects, apart from some slime accompanying the poo. If the antibiotics don’t work, so it’s not an infection, the next step with my dog was a short course of steroids, to reduce inflammation. An endoscopy is a huge step financially, and if your pet isn’t acting in discomfort,  is premature.  It would only show the location of the ulceration. Then they would give steroids!
I’m not a medical person, but I have family with Crohns, and a previous dog with gut and pancreatic issues.  Your pet isn’t losing weight, vomiting or diarrhoea,  so don’t despair. You could always try a different vet for a second opinion.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on May 22, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
A little update. Fraser's almost finished the antibiotic and it didn't really make much difference. Still some bloody slime traces visible. He seems fine otherwise. So, another conversation with the vet before going the ultrasound etc. route. There is no-one where I live (north of Vancouver and a ferry ride away) that can do the scope, or at least the person who does them is on medical leave with no certainty of when he'd be back. The vet would have to refer me to a clinic in Vancouver. However, we're in the midst of Covid, only essential travel on the ferries and people told to stay home, avoid contact with others etc. especially people like me who are old and have health vulnerabilities. I was mulling it over one night and trying to picture the trip--staying in my car on the ferry, leaving him at the clinic and finding a place to park and wait for it to be finished and for him to be judged fit to go home after anaesthetic, trying to get back to the ferry terminal before the last sailing etc.  And all the while trying to avoid contact with other people. Then it occurred to me, one of the lovely features of old age (and being female) is lots of visits to the toilet. And since businesses, parks and other places you might find a toilet mid journey are closed, major problem.  It all comes down to such a mundane issue though rather fundamental.  :-\

So, I've asked the vet what he can do short of referring to Vancouver clinic for the procedures. Can we buy some time until perhaps the vet on medical leave who does scopes up here has come back to work. Came to the decision that he's going to do blood tests including one that determines gut function and then, depending on results make a presumptive diagnosis of chronic IBS and treat with steroids. That happens tomorrow and we'll see if anything comes of the blood tests. His reservation was that the steroids can obscure the results of further tests if it turns out they are needed, but with the complication of Covid in the midst of all this, it is a provisional alternative.

To cap it off, on Monday night Fraser developed a heavy limp. I can only guess maybe he hurt himself jumping off the sofa. No yelps from him after I went up and down his legs and shoulders and pressed between his paw pads, so no idea why he's favouring his paw. I've given him reduced activity for the week to see if it subsides and by today it had subsided quite a bit though not entirely gone. I hesitate to ask, what next.  >:D
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Archie bean on May 22, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
Archie suffered very similarly with gut issues. His symptoms are exactly as you describe.  He was diagnosed with colitis quite a few years ago. Working with my vet,  I had him allergy tested (simple blood test) and found that he was intolerant to a lot of things - including most animal proteins. I put him on a strict fish and potato only diet -no grain. One of his biggest allergens was soya and also peas so I also cut both of those out (pea protein is in a LOT of foods and treats). He very rarely has any problems now but when he does, slippery Elm definitely helps a LOT whenever he has a flare up.
Hope you manage to get to the bottom of things.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on May 22, 2020, 11:33:24 PM
I'll ask the vet about allergies tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion. It would be nice if it was something simple.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 04, 2020, 07:51:00 PM
Update on current state of Fraser. We're in a holding pattern, waiting to see if the only person on my stretch of the BC coast who can do endoscopies will be available in August or September to get a definitive assessment of what's causing the bleeding. The presumptive diagnosis is chronic IBD, but vet doesn't want to start steroids as it will interfere with results from these further tests. In the meantime, he ordered blood tests to determine whether it is safe to leave him without further treatment until he can get the ultrasound and endoscopy and fortunately they showed as normal. He's advised Metamucil in addition to Fraser's daily pumpkin to get lots of fibre going through. So, we'll see how it goes. Fingers crossed the other vet comes back and can do the procedures as travel into Vancouver with Fraser is not on the cards for me with Covid still out there and no vaccine yet available.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: ejp on June 05, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Such a tricky situation.  At least the tests were normal, so that is a start.  Hopefully you will get more information soon.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 20, 2020, 12:15:58 AM
Well, what now. Another visit to the vet this morning. When we got up, Fraser didn't do his usual happy greeting. Sat hunched on the bed with cow eyes. But then trotted normally out to the back garden where he had a pee. I threw a frisbee and he disappeared behind the arbour. Then I heard a yelp and he came back without the frisbee and sat down trembling. Took him inside and gave him a treat, but he kind of mumbled it around in his mouth as it he was having trouble chewing it, then he went and sat on the sofa trembling quite hard. So seems as if he was in pain.  Off to vet where vital signs normal, tummy not tender, but Fraser didn't want the vet to open in his mouth. From what vet did see, there were no signs of broken tooth or cuts. So he was sent home with pain pills and instructions to give him Benadryls on the theory that maybe it was a bee sting. However, the puzzling thing is he wasn't himself first thing before he went outside to encounter bees. When we got home, I gave him softened food and he was able to get that down. But a few minutes ago (afternoon here) I went to give him soft cheese with a Benadryl pill in it and he gingerly touched it with his mouth and then backed away. I followed him with smaller. amount of cheese and he did take it in. The whole thing is very puzzling. What a year (well, started last year) of distressing ailments the poor boy is having.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: AndyB on June 20, 2020, 06:01:27 AM
What a worrying time for you.   :luv:  Sending lots of these to you and Fraser.  :bigarmhug:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on June 20, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
Sending healing thoughts to Fraser.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 20, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
Thanks for your healing thoughts. I *think*   :dunno: maybe he's getting better though he was asking to be let out at 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. which he does when his tummy is upset. In the second outing, I found him sitting under a bush. ?? When he came in, he went to the sofa rather than coming back to his bed which he usually does when he's unwell. Lot of stomach noises. But, let him out this morning, trot trot, off to sniff around and wanted to greet the neighbour whom he heard over the fence. When I asked him if he wanted food, he perked and ate it no problem. So, he's on the mend? I sure hope so.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: LottieLu on June 20, 2020, 07:27:37 PM
Poor little chap. Fingers crossed he’s on the mend. I’m wondering if  he might have or have had a bit of pancreatitis?
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: bizzylizzy on June 20, 2020, 09:42:27 PM
Sending healing thoughts, hope a bit of the old COL magic will work for poor Frazer. Its so frustrating when they just can’t tell you what‘s wrong.!
Hope he‘s feeling better soon!  :bigarmhug:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 23, 2020, 06:30:06 PM
Well....things are just a big mystery. This is day 5 from when Fraser woke up in a sad condition and trembling. He saw the vet on Friday when it started, physical exam revealing nothing--no tender abdomen, vitals normal, but he wouldn't open his mouth enough for vet to check it for lesions or signs of an insect sting. Sent home with pain pills and instructions to give him Benadryl on the theory that he may have been stung in the mouth. There has been no vomiting or diarrhoea that would suggest poison of some sort.  Since then, his behaviour has been inconsistent. Sad, no greetings in the morning, moping during the day. BUT, he's keen on his walks, trots, sniffs about, leaves his mark and he is keen on his food which is small dry kibble in warm water with pumpkin. He's able to move his jaw enough to be able to slurp that up, but he no longer wants his treats that he used to demand at routine times of the day. The treats are larger than the food kibble, about the size of a small grape. It seems it hurts his mouth to open just that little bit further. I wrap his pills in a little ball of cream cheese and he's hesitant to take it, but gives it a try as he loves cream cheese and gets it down.

The vet has been in touch daily to see how he's doing and the idea was to see if he improves and if not, examine the mouth under sedation. However, on Sunday, Fraser was still acting the same in the mornings. Hunched, no greeting, sad dog, obviously not well.  And when he was let outside, he went down to the end of the garden and sat hunched under a bush shivering. That's been happening each morning since the start of this. So, back to the vet, another one in the practice, who gave him a thorough examination and then put him under anaesthetic to have a good look inside his mouth. Nothing. Could see no problem with teeth, was able to open his mouth which eliminated a possible problem with maxillary (?) muscle at hinge of jaw, no signs of lesion, stings or below gum issues. Did an X ray which she enlarged to see as much detail as possible, but still could see no cause of the inability to open his mouth. The only option short of going into Vancouver to the vet clinic for more major investigation, is treat symptoms. So he's still on pain pills plus antibiotic in case there's an underlying infection somewhere. However, blood tests were normal, white count normal.

It's a complete mystery what's wrong with him. He did seem more normal yesterday. Same slow start, but he was actively enthusiastic about going out for a walk later in the morning got into position to get his harness on, tail wagging and had a long walk, trotting, sniffing, generally being completely normal. I thought, this might be the turn. Then, this morning, hunched dog, no happy greeting, let him outside where he disappeared down the end of the garden. After a few minutes I went looking for him and found him under the bush again, shivering. This is day 5 of whatever's wrong with him with no diagnosis, inconsistent behaviour, two vets have examined him and he's still not right. Needless to say, I'm very worried. And this is on top of his 'holding pattern' for the IBD, hoping the vet who can do endoscopies comes back from med leave.

Sorry about the long, long post, but if anyone is likely to have a clue about this new mouth/jaw issue that has him so poorly, they're likely to be here. Some kind of plant or herbicide poison seems out of the possibilities as there has been no vomiting or diarrhoea and he's eating happily as long as he doesn't have to open his jaw much. But WTH??
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: bizzylizzy on June 23, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
How very very strange, poor lad!!
I realize this is an extremely  long shot, but you‘re obviously desperate and it was just a thought - my own jaw sometimes locks, usually first thing in the morning and I can‘t open my mouth properly, its almost as if the jaw joint has slipped out of alignment and after a bit of gentle wiggling about, its ok again, In my case the problem seems to stem from the neck and my dentist prescribed physio which has helped. Just wondered if its worth asking the vet if a neck problem could be causing a trapped nerve, maybe after lying in one position all night?
(Sorry if its a mad idea! )
Do hope you can find help for Fraser soon!  :bigarmhug:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 23, 2020, 08:00:52 PM
Just back from walk with Fraser. He trotted along, sniffed, pooped, marked, all normal. But there was a bit of peel on the road and he went to sniff it. I let him investigate as he doesn't eat orange peel However, he tried to take a bit in his mouth and yelped loudly. So mouth/jaw still hurts as much as ever at day 5. While he was under sedation at the vet's, she checked the jaw hinges as there is an inflammatory thing that can give a dog pain and difficulty in opening the jaw, but seemed okay.

The fact that he's not improving with time is very puzzling. And that he's otherwise normal when he's out for a walk, but not in the mornings when he's definitely suffering *something* that makes him feel low and want to hide in a bush trembling. I even looked up symptoms of Covid in dogs, but he's not showing any of those symptoms. He's 11 years old. Hmm, immediately thought arthritis in the jaw (though it came on suddenly last Friday), but that would have shown up in an X-ray.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Mari on June 23, 2020, 09:22:26 PM
Have they considered masticatory muscle myositis as a differential diagnosis? Just throwing out an idea, they probably have considered it. I just remembered that I saw a dog once that suffered from this. Could not open his mouth without pain. I believe he was treated with corticosteroids. Hope you can find out what it is and get treatment soon. Sounds like a nightmare for you right now!
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 23, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
I think that's one of the things the vet was looking for while he was under. She said if she couldn't open his jaw when he is under sedation, that would indicate something to do with the mandibular joint, so I assume she was probably talking about MMM. However, she could open his jaw while he was under and had a good look around as well as with the X-rays. I'm just back from grocery p.u. and Fraser didn't get up to greet me. He's definitely low, very much not himself. And yet on his walk he was feeling strong enough to express opinions about our route. He usually does that at intersections--looks at me with ears up and leans in the direction he wants to take. And the walk was 2 hours after the pain pills, so you would have thought they would have kicked in enough that he wouldn't have yelped when he opened his mouth to take the orange peel. Yet he can eat his kibble floating in water, no signs of pain as he's slurping it up and will take the little ball of cream cheese with his pill though a little hesitantly. It is so confusing and worrying.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on June 24, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
So worrying - it is awful when they can't tell you what is wrong - yet clearly you can see there is !

Is it a long journey to Vancouver - guess you need to take ferry etc. If Fraser doesn't improve think it is the next step.  Do hope he improves without the need.

Thinking of you both.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Mari on June 24, 2020, 05:18:52 PM
Really hope they can figure it out soon. Not knowing must be so difficult!
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 25, 2020, 12:19:50 AM
It really is. This morning, no greeting from him other than getting out of his bed, he went outside and hid under a bush. Got him inside and he ate breakfast no problem. Later seemed normal on walk. I had to leave him this afternoon for 3 hours while I got my brakes done and when I came back, he was at the garage door to greet me and was quite keen on his food. So, maybe perking up a bit? But I notice his eyes look a bit sunken and there's little bit of gunge coming out on the inner side duct. Doesn't look green/infected, but he doesn't usually have anything there except a slight bit. It's piecing together tiny little (and some big) observations to see if anything comes together to suggest what's going on. I know lots of people on here have gone through some difficult health issues with their beloved pets. It really is draining waiting for some sign of clear cause for his sad state or a turn for the better even if the cause is never found out. Thank goodness I can talk to people who know what that's all about and have suggestions.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on June 25, 2020, 01:37:53 PM
It is so hard not knowing - yes we have been there and I can imagine your concerns.  Plus as you say piece by piece.  Do you think making a diary may help!!

Today it is 30c here and Ollie like Fraser is black mainly and can't take the heat and I constantly worry - like today trying to keep a strong minded cocker cool!!! Plus he acts strange in the heat...he disappears in rooms he would never venture in and under bushes too.

I do hope that Fraser picks up...stay positive and we are here to listen

Take care Julie
 
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on June 25, 2020, 07:01:36 PM
Thanks for your words, Jaysmum. This morning Fraser was let out in the garden and again retreated to the far end into the shadows of a bush. He's been doing that since it all started last Friday. He sits hunched looking at me and has to be lured out. Then he comes and eats his breakfast, no problem. While he was waiting for me to make his breakfast, this morning he sat in another bush opposite the patio door watching me. Usually he'd be hovering around my feet urging me on. He's strong in his body which I can see by the spring in his trot when out for a walk, but his behaviour otherwise is so low and out of character. Yesterday evening when I was putting his harness on, my hand brushed his muzzle and he let out a loud yelp ending in a whimper. ??  It was such a small, light contact. He can open his mouth to eat, pant, even pick up dry kibble I throw into the grass for him to search out (corn kernel sized) but doesn't open his mouth for larger objects or to yawn. The weather here has been mild, but not hot as you're having in the UK, so I don't think the bushes retreat has to do with being too warm though he occasionally opens his mouth to pant a bit while we're out walks in the direct sun. It's a huge mystery that my mind cycles through trying to find a clue that might explain what's going on. Keeping a diary is a good idea though my posts here have been useful as a record over time.

In the meantime, he's on gabapentin and tramadol (the gabapentin was added by the second vet who saw him on Sunday) on the basis of treating his symptoms since she couldn't see what could be causing pain. I've essentially got my second opinion, so I don't suppose it's any use spending more money to go to a third vet. I guess I'll wait for a while longer to see if there's any signs of his...what?...I don't even know what it is...mouth issue subsiding. If it doesn't improve, I'll have to consider going into Vancouver for a deeper look. That was already on the cards for investigation of his IBD that I'd been delaying because of Covid (I'm in the vulnerable oldster group), but now I'm wondering if I'll just have to do it and get the mouth thing checked as well.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on July 04, 2020, 08:02:37 PM
It's been a longish while since the sore mouth thing started, but Fraser is finally seeming more like himself. He still doesn't want to let me look in his mouth, but otherwise, trots along in his walks and communicates by eye in a more normal way than the sad eyed boy he'd been for a couple of weeks. Still don't know what the issue was and he's still on the last of the gabapentin and antibiotic, so I hope when the pain pill is finished, he's still feeling okay. I've booked with the specialist clinic in Vancouver. He'll get an examination and possibly ultrasound. If he needs endoscopy, it will mean another trip. The logistics of getting over there has been fraught--trying to book on the ferry for a time that will correspond to the morning only consultation time (means getting up extremely early) and plotting out possible open toilet places along the route. Thank goodness for Google Earth. You'd think it was the storming of Normandy going on. I'm counting on public parks and maybe MacDonalds. So, fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: ejp on July 04, 2020, 09:09:55 PM
That sounds better, lets hope he is on the mend.  :luv:   Definitely a military operation getting him to the vet, lots of planning needed.  I hope you can manage it with suitable stops for you as well.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: bizzylizzy on July 05, 2020, 06:32:43 AM
That does sound like a logistical challenge ! although  I would imagine you’re rewarded by living in beautiful surroundings?
Glad to hear Fraser‘s feeling better, best of luck for your trip, I hope you can get some answers!
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on July 05, 2020, 10:52:14 PM
Yes I do live in a lovely spot. No matter how many times you look out at the sea and mountains, you never get tired of how beautiful it is. Just stunning scenery here on the west coast. But, we pay for the pleasure of living here by having to rely on an overloaded and underfunded ferry system which makes already fraught situations like specialist doctor visits for human or animal especially difficult and now with Covid, off the scale. Ferries running late, reservations canceled abruptly, long lineups. We Coasters live in a state of simmering rage about BC Ferries. But then there's the fresh air, sparkling sea, massive mountains, forest walks and lots of wildlife. Good thing it's so tranquillising  :lol2:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on July 06, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
It does sound a challenge but getting Fraser sorted will be worth it....plus me thinks this tie of year is better than others ;)
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on July 11, 2020, 07:25:38 PM
Fraser seems to be over his mouth/jaw problem, much more like himself, now able to yawn which was the last sign of function coming back. Thank goodness. It's such a relief to see him being more cheerful and interactive. He seems to have given up frisbee as his garden exercise altogether (the day the mouth issue started, he'd yelped in pain when he tried to open his mouth to take the frisbee.) But I think it may have to do with him being 11 years old now and deciding it was just too much trouble. He gives it a couple of courtesy fetches and then drops it half way back and looks at me with ears up as if to say, 'I'm not all the bothered with this frisbee thing, could we give it a break."

Since his yearly shots were coming up and it involves a physical checkup (with his other vet), I thought I'd get a second opinion on his blood in stool issue. That vet suggested it was worth checking allergy as a cause since other things such as giardia had been tested for and it hadn't responded to more roughage and antibiotics. So I'm now transitioning him to a hypoallergenic food in hopes of getting a good result before I go to the specialist vet visit in Vancouver in two weeks.  He figures it's worth a try, but leave the specialist appointment in place for now. Needless to say, fingers crossed. Unfortunately, while there can be a noticeable difference in a week or two on the new food, it could take a couple of months to show a proper result if the cause is allergy. I'll just have to make a decision on the specialist vet closer to the appointment. In the meantime, Fraser seems much brighter, thank goodness.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: ejp on July 12, 2020, 10:06:06 PM
That's a much cheerier post, good to hear.  I think your vet has a realistic plan, and it is worth a try.  Daisy often can't be annoyed bringing back a ball after a few throws, there are things to sniff and that is way more important.
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: tritonx on July 29, 2020, 07:16:06 PM
Hopefully a final update. I took Fraser into the Vancouver specialist clinic and results are the best of the possibilities. He had blood work and an ultrasound and both had good results. Bloodwork is normal, gut is in good shape, but on physical exam the vet found an rectal polyp that is the probable cause of the bleeding. He's given pills (Piroxican) that he said could clear up the polyp (dissolve it? stop it from bleeding? Not sure the process). And if the pills don't work, the polyp can be removed surgically. It's not far inside the rectum (though my local vets did not detect it), so maybe the surgery could be done up here instead of another trip to Vancouver. But all in all, a big relief. My boy seems to be basically health despite his advancing age. When I read the extensive medical report I couldn't help thinking the vet knows more about the state of my dog's health than my doctor knows about mine. So yay! And fingers crossed that the polyp will resolve without further procedures. It's been great to have a place like this to unfold such a long tale of doggie distress. Thanks for your advice and support  :003: :bigarmhug:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: bizzylizzy on July 29, 2020, 09:10:14 PM
That‘s great news! So pleased you‘‘ve finally got answers -  a bit of a pain in the bum for poor Fraser but glad to hear its nothing life threatening, what a relief!
All the best for you both!  :D
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: ejp on July 29, 2020, 10:41:46 PM
That is brilliant news, what a relief! I hope the medication works for him  :luv: I get what you mean about the vets medical knowledge, I sometimes think I'd be better to visit them than my GP  :005:
Title: Re: Fraser with gut issue a year later
Post by: Jaysmumagain on July 30, 2020, 10:25:08 AM
Great news to read about Fraser.

Sure the meds will do the trick.....the name is a blast from the past as I used to take them myself for bad back and helped.

Am sure you are feeling happy knowing your boy is basically well as vet said.

Do keep posting now and again it's lovely to hear from you and how Fraser is doing.