Show x Working - What Price Would You Say ?

[rubybella]

I would seriously not be bothering about getting money back because he looks more working than show! You have said in your previous posts that he is a lovely dog and that you wouldn't change him for the world. Why waste you time and energy on trying to claim back money ? I think I would be more worried that you have bought a puppy that sounds like it came from a puppy farm and probably has come from parents who had no health checks !!

[elaine.e]

We paid £500 for Ollie who is a working / show cross.  We deliberately sought out a working/show cross and so I guess would have been prepared to pay more than for either pure show or pure worker.  We wanted the cross because we thought this would probably mean a lower coefficient of inbreeding - more gentic diversity, less likely that his parents shared a recent common ancester and subsequently less likely that he develop certain inherited health conditions.  No guarantees, certainly; time will tell. 

If you've been misled and can prove it and feel strongly enough about it then yes follow it up.

I'm curious hoover, hence this question. Did you choose a worker/show cross purely for the reasons you've stated? Because if you'd looked at KC registered puppies (I don't know if Ollie is), either worker, show or a mix of both, you would have been able to check the coefficiency, look at the pedigrees of the parents to check for common ancestors and check health tests on the KC website once you knew the names of the parents of the litter. That would have been a way of finding a pup that met your criteria without necessarily having to go for a worker/show cross.

[hoover]

We paid £500 for Ollie who is a working / show cross.  We deliberately sought out a working/show cross and so I guess would have been prepared to pay more than for either pure show or pure worker.  We wanted the cross because we thought this would probably mean a lower coefficient of inbreeding - more gentic diversity, less likely that his parents shared a recent common ancester and subsequently less likely that he develop certain inherited health conditions.  No guarantees, certainly; time will tell. 

If you've been misled and can prove it and feel strongly enough about it then yes follow it up.

I'm curious hoover, hence this question. Did you choose a worker/show cross purely for the reasons you've stated? Because if you'd looked at KC registered puppies (I don't know if Ollie is), either worker, show or a mix of both, you would have been able to check the coefficiency, look at the pedigrees of the parents to check for common ancestors and check health tests on the KC website once you knew the names of the parents of the litter. That would have been a way of finding a pup that met your criteria without necessarily having to go for a worker/show cross.

It wasn't the only reason, but certainly the biggest. We also wanted my partner to be able to run with a dog and thought having some worker in them might mean they had the stamina for this more.  Aesthetically we personally happen to prefer the appearance of show and Ollie does tend to look more show-like and his features as a young pup seemed to indicate that this would be the case.

We did not know about KC website being able to do that, I think that's a good thing.  However, it's value depends on how far back they can trace the generations, and from trialling a few combinations of sires and dams just now several of them seem to say that they only have 1 generation back fully complete, others 2 or 3 generations back.  The most I saw was 6 generations back, which would give me more confidence. It also disappoints me to see that they say that 'Any puppies from this mating would have a coefficient value of 0.0%"...well yes, of course this is likely to be the case if you can only trace the complete ancesters back 1, 2 or 3 generations - that does not mean there is not one or more relatively recent common ancestors 4 + generations back.  It could lull someone into a false sense of security "o, I'll be getting a pup with 0.0% coefficient, that's fantastic.' NO! NOT AT ALL!! The website should demonstrate much more clearly that the result is entirely dependent on how far back they can trace complete generations, and this should be a huge caveat on their figures.  As someone who deals quite regularky with statistics and how they can be misread by the public that concerns me and I think I'll email them.

[daw]

We paid £500 for Ollie who is a working / show cross.  We deliberately sought out a working/show cross and so I guess would have been prepared to pay more than for either pure show or pure worker.  We wanted the cross because we thought this would probably mean a lower coefficient of inbreeding - more gentic diversity, less likely that his parents shared a recent common ancester and subsequently less likely that he develop certain inherited health conditions.  No guarantees, certainly; time will tell. 
.

That's certainly what we'd do if we ever looked for another puppy. We'd want health-tested parents as well so it might be a big ask.

But I'm not clear either why the original post is about wanting to pursue the seller. If you love your dog and it's a part of your family, a good test is to ask yourself this: if the seller offered you your money back but it meant taking the dog away would you say yes? I suppose if you expected it to be more sedate and need less exercise...perhaps. But I think it's a common misconception that shows don't still have the gundog athlete in there - the shows we'd had had been up for a very active life! I'd just love the one you're with, as they say.   

[Redked]

I tend to agree that you should persue the breeder. Even if you love your dog and wouldn't change a thing, the fact is that you were lied to and this could happen many more times to other people, who maybe do not end up loving their dog. This in turn will lead to even more unwanted, unhappy dogs in rescue. It's a matter of principal. But I'd be doing it to prevent the breeder repeating this with new litters rather than any monetary compensation as I don't think the price of a show x worker would be much different to a full worker or show. It's still a pedigree cocker so the money aspect isn't as relevant.

If someone has researched the differences in the 2 types and have decided that a show type is what they want and suits their lifestyle,  family etc and they end up with a dog that is more worker, this may not suit that lifestyle and could lead to many issues.

I thin

[Madmandy]

No, we didn't want to show him. He isn't KC registered so we couldn't anyway.....

[Madmandy]

Did you want to show your dog?

No, we didn't want to show him, he''a not KC registered so we couldn't have anyway ..

[Madmandy]

I tend to agree that you should persue the breeder. Even if you love your dog and wouldn't change a thing, the fact is that you were lied to and this could happen many more times to other people, who maybe do not end up loving their dog. This in turn will lead to even more unwanted, unhappy dogs in rescue. It's a matter of principal. But I'd be doing it to prevent the breeder repeating this with new litters rather than any monetary compensation as I don't think the price of a show x worker would be much different to a full worker or show. It's still a pedigree cocker so the money aspect isn't as relevant.

If someone has researched the differences in the 2 types and have decided that a show type is what they want and suits their lifestyle,  family etc and they end up with a dog that is more worker, this may not suit that lifestyle and could lead to many issues.

I thin

Precisely, that is exectly why we are doing this...regardless of how we feel about our dog the breeder is miss selling dogs and it needs to be stopped.
My question about how much you could expect to pay for a cross between the 2 breeds was to see how much we had paid over the odds

[twiceover2]

The question is difficult because I wouldn't buy from a puppy farm, wouldn't buy a puppy that wasn't KC registered with all health checks done and wouldn't buy a cross.  I have seen puppies like this advertised for around £300 but nobody should be receiving any money for breeding puppies in this way.   

[rubybella]

Surely the concern should be much more about stopping this person selling puppies at all! Not KC registered, no health checks, selling multiple breeds etc. I honestly think that you are completely wasting your time worrying that you may have been sold a working/show cocker!

You have not bought a crossbreed at all, it cannot be compared to a cockerpoo as it is not 2 different breeds, it is the same breed with a different purpose!

If you have paid more than £300 for a non KC registered, not health checked cocker spaniel you have been had anyway! It would be irrelevant whether that was for a show or working cocker.

I am sorry, but I think you did not research the background of your puppy well enough before you purchased it and it is too late to try to compensate for that now. Please just enjoy him for what he is.

[minimoo]

I think you should just enjoy your pup, I was saying in another post its getting harder to get the small show types these days as a lot of breeders are now breeding for colour (right or wrongly) in wales a lot of the cockers seem to have some worker in their pedigree, I wish it wasn't so but that just seems to be the way it is , chocolate/liver cockers are a prime example of this

[Murphys Law]

I was in pretty much the same boat as the op. Murphy was sold as a show and I had my doubts very early on. When his papers arrived half his bloodline were workers.

This was not a problem to me because I originally wanted a worker but my wife wanted a show.

[Mudmagnets]

Branston and Minstrel both have some worker in them and they have not turned out so bad, but I did know before I paid for them and I guess that makes a difference.

[Murphys Law]

I know a lot is made of the different requirements of show and workers but personally, I have not really noticed any difference between Millie and Murphy. Millie likes to run more than Murphy and she is faster but they are both happy with a run on the field or a pavement walk and once they have been out they are both very chilled for the rest of the day.

It's when they have had no walk in the morning they can be

[daw]

All of the dogs featured on the thumbnails with this thread look  .

I do agree with the originator of this thread that something needs stopping: but it's puppy farming and the people who fund them with their custom and money.