CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Activities => Working => Topic started by: panda66 on March 15, 2014, 10:40:38 PM
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When sent out to retrieve Lilah goes out to the dummy but if she picks up a scent she has started b....... off. She did this at training today and i was told to get a choke chain and smack her with it as she is running off and it will stop her :huh:
I don't want to do this as she is very sensitive and i feel that she could easily just switch off from me. Does anyone have a view or advice on this please ?
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Sounds cruel to me. I know gundog methods can be a bit harsher, but smacking any dog particularly a a sensitive one just doesn't sit right with me. If you don't want to do it, don't, work on more positive methods of getting her to bring it back :)
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I've taken Pearl to 2 gun dog trainers both use hands on reward and no negative noise or actions - I know they would both suggest going back to basics and introducing more discipline through making her wait for her dinner and not getting on furniture until she starts it listen to commands again, also using a long line.
Frankly I think your trainer is out of date and extreme. I'd suggest finding someone else who understands dogs and isn't cruel.
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Sounds like something from the 'Koehler method' - he advocated use of 'throw chains' to discourage certain behaviours. He trained police and military dogs during WW2! Bit outdated. I would be looking for a new trainer. If this is a new behaviour, can you link it to anything? Are you stressed at the sessions? If so, and she's particularly sensitive, it may be affecting her behaviour. I think you mentioned quite recently that she ran off during a training session? Does she enjoy gundog training sessions? If not, and you don't plan to work her, then might be better to find something you both enjoy more.
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Find yourself another trainer, and quickly.
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Granted I don't know anything about gundog training but that sounds totally illogical at best (you: come here so I can hit you... dog: errr no!) and cruel at worst! I'd find another trainer x
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Me neither, I dont know anything about gundog training, but would be finding another trainer. How on earth is it a good idea to hit/hurt your lovely dog in order for them to stop the unwanted behaviour. I wouldnt have the heart to do such a thing. I would be very uncomfortable around such a trainer and find a new one with positive learning .
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Totally agree with the other poster, if I saw someone hitting any dog with a chain I would go not just stand there and watch it , get a decent trainer
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not only wrong but chances are if you slightly miss time you could put the dog off retrieving for good, cockers can be very sensitive to harsh methods.
I would make the retrieves more interesting and do less of them on ground with no game scents, change of dummy to rabbit skin or do memories or blinds make it more fun for a while.
I don't know how old your dog is but they can get bored easily if you are teaching steadiness to a young pup.
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Just read this and have to say I'm appalled at this type of training. It cannot be in the dog's best interest, and cannot possibly be a positive thing. I am the first to admit that I know nothing about gundog training, but my O/H has a worker which he trains, and always uses positive reinforcement with good effect.
Perhaps the trainer ought to try running and we stop him with a metal choke chain...lets see if he still thinks it's a good idea.
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It's a shame that there are trainers out there still using such methods, and particularly as it perpetuates this belief that gundog trainers are generally 'cruel' and would find this type of thing acceptable. Granted, am new to gudog training having got my cocker last march, but have yet to come across any of those i've met either as trainers or people who work/trial their dogs who would appove of or use such methods.
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I'm not going to comment on the trainer - there's no need, others have covered it ;)
What I will say is that it sounds like Lilah is not ready and proofed enough to do retrieves without distractions so I would really be working on that. Don't set yourselves up to fail - make sure she will respond to you before testing her in areas where she can be distracted :D
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Thanks everyone. Doing no more than 3 retrieves on playing field (no scent) and no problem :D
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Hi Panda66,just seen this and glad you are sorting out Lilahs retrieving,I am no expert but thought Geff Ds advice was excellent
If you don't mind me asking who do you train with.I live on merseyside and train with West Lancs Gundogs at the moment and find hes quite good.
I have tried a few gundog trainers within driving distance and have found them all to be a bit old school so just ignore some advice that I am not comfortable with. :-\
Paul.
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Hi Paul, I have trained with Nick and I think he is great but if you have seen post titled "Humiliation" you will see that he thought we should concentrate on agility ph34r
Nick's intermediate class was a big step up for us and too difficult.
I am going to Adrian Slater now as his classes are very structured and better for a total novice like me.
He wasn't the person who suggested the choke chain, that was someone who was "helping" out.
You are right about the old school trainers round here, the reason we have problems is because we went to the wrong ones when we started.
Am following Jeff D advice and retrieving is improving :D