Shooting Background vs Trailing Background

[Hannahc7]

Hi all,

I am going round in circles with this researching puppy business! I thought I had it sorted, found a breeder, met the Mum who was lovely, puppies planned. Then someone has mentioned that I should probably stay away from Pups with high Field Trial background pups as they are such a handful and not biddable. I have grown up with working springers and while they are loopy they do calm down in the evening...ish..
I just wouldn't have a clue where to find pups from shooting background as all the breeders I have found seem to be from Field Trial lines? Does anyone know where to look for recommended breeders without so much FTCH in the line? Or if you have a high FTCH puppy do you agree that they are too much of a handful for a beginner at gundog training?
Any advice would be really appreciated! Thanks 

Hannah x

[JeffD]

Hi I have a a pup that only has 9 non FTCH in her 5 generation pedigree and 4 of them were winners I am told, I have had a very lively springer pup in the past from a general working background and they are like chalk and cheese the springer was a bouncy energetic pup my Cocker  is on a different level  .

If you want a gundog then I would go for a trial bred dog to be honest its the only way you know you are getting a dog with the correct breeding, if you just buy a working Cocker you will be taking a gamble unless you know the parents and have seen them working.

Most gundog breeders want a strong FT pedigree so they can prove the working lines.

Not all FT bred pups are very hyper but most are, they are the thoroughbred race horses of the gundog world and you should be prepared that you might just end up with a pup that extremely testing for the first 6 to 8 months.

If you had asked me 3 months ago would I have another with this breeding I might well have said no but at 8 months Teal is getting so much better and I feel all the hard work has been worth it.

Her  nose pace and marking are incredible for a dog of this age and she is very smart ( this also makes her harder work) but I just know she will turn out to be a cracking little worker.

So if you are really prepared to train the pup for the gun and go in with eyes wide open about the possibility of having a hooligan in the house for the first 6 months or so  I would go for a pup with the best breeding you can get

[Hannahc7]

That is really helpful, thanks Jeff. I am fully prepared for the onslaught of a working puppy   I have no doubt they are a handful!
Can I ask where your pup is from?(She is gorgeous by the way!) I am on the waiting list for a pup out of Kali and have been just been on the phone to another breeder who explained that high FTCH doesn't necessarily mean more wired and it is all a gamble with puppies and it is just then how they are trained.
I am ready to put in a lot of work but want to make sure I am getting the right dog!

[JeffD]

No one really knows how a pup will turn out, but a pup with a good working pedigree will mean your chances are much higher.

Every time Teal winds me up with her behaviour in the house I just have to remind myself that one day she will be putting all that drive and energy in working with me.

Teal is a diffferent dog when she is out of the house when we are training /exercising in fact I would say she is a very easy pup out side, Its bordom that turns them into house hooligans but none of us can really give the pup 100% of our time 7/24.

Teals sire is Scrappy, her dam is Etakiel Partridge a non trialing dog but a very good worker she has 20 FTCH in her pedegree  Maesydderwen   Larford , Mawernffrwd and Timsgarry lines.

Kali looks to be a great dog and with Scrappy doing his bit I am sure the pups will be worth waiting for.

[Lovely]

I don't know if it's the case in cockers but in springers certain lines are known for specific traits eg Badgercourt springers are huge and very brave but are also head strong. My ex has a badgercourt springer which i had main caring responsibilities for when he was a pup, and he was the most demanding puppy i've ever had in the house. My ex keeps his dogs in outdoor kennels once they're 5 months and they are very calm in them, but get them indoors and they're like a bull in a china shop.  I think a trials bred dog will need plenty of mental stimulation, so either gun dog training or agility, scent work etc. Having said all that, my show type cocker Lovely also requires alot of input and exercise! Good luck it sounds like you've identified a good breeder.  Hopefully you'll get a puppy during spring or summer as better weather and more time outdoors definitely helps with workers!

[vixen]

My two girls come from a very strong field trial background and I have found them the most biddable, honest, loving dogs ever.  
If you prefer a pup to come from working parents, ask around the local gamekeepers 

[Lovely]

You could run your pup's pedigree past a local gun dog trainer as they often know alot about different breeding lines and traits

[Hannahc7]

Thanks for all your advice. It seems fairly split on opinion and I think that is probably because puppies can vary so much even within the same litter.
It is hard as although I really want a dog with some get up and go and energy for gundog training but I also want a dog who once worked will relax in the house maybe I am asking too much??
I will try and find some other breeders which have less ftch in the line and maybe fate will decide!! I am sure I will be very happy with whatever personality I will end up with though! Who knew puppy hunting would be so challenging!

[Emilyoliver]

Here's a link (just to confuse you a bit more  )

http://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15616

[7733lily]

Just to confuse things      I have three show cockers all of which embrace lots of exercise, but one in particular has the traits of a working cocker when out and about and is taking to gundog training like a duck to water

However, once indoors, he settles down with the other two and is not at all demanding, other than for cuddles 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even within an individual "type" be it working or show there will always be the exceptions to the rule

Good luck in your search, I look forward to seeing pictures of him/her when they arrive

[Hannahc7]

That is a good link Michelle, thanks. Although still very confused! I think I just have to go with what feels right. I am sure even if my pup is wired I will just have to put in that much more time into training!
7722lily tell me about it, we had a Show Cocker when i was younger who was absolutely gorgeous but if it was slightly overcast or cold she would get 2 minutes into a walk and just sit down and refuse to walk. We used to have to pick her up and carry her home!! So all sorts of personalities make a breed!
I am going to call around some more breeders and ask about this as at the moment I am finding it hard to find breeders who seem reliable that don't have so much FTCH.
 

[JeffD]

Thanks for all your advice. It seems fairly split on opinion and I think that is probably because puppies can vary so much even within the same litter.
It is hard as although I really want a dog with some get up and go and energy for gundog training but I also want a dog who once worked will relax in the house maybe I am asking too much??
I will try and find some other breeders which have less ftch in the line and maybe fate will decide!! I am sure I will be very happy with whatever personality I will end up with though! Who knew puppy hunting would be so challenging!

I wish the very best of luck in your search for a pup, please remember to also check out the health testing the breeder has done, even more important than the pedigree. Nothing worse than spending 2 years training to discover your pup has bad hips or is going blind.

[Jane S]

I wish the very best of luck in your search for a pup, please remember to also check out the health testing the breeder has done, even more important than the pedigree. Nothing worse than spending 2 years training to discover your pup has bad hips or is going blind.

Shame that's not the approach being taken in the thread Emilyoliver posted above where health testing doesn't seem to be viewed with much importance at all. As the OP of that thread is a member here and has bred several litters from her show type dogs & presumably health tested them, I'm surprised she doesn't see it as a priority when looking for a working pup

[Emilyoliver]

Hip scoring isn't that common, and neither is testing for FN (as far as I have seen), amongst working cocker breeders.  Quite a few breeders are testing for PRA though, which at least is a start.  I am a bit torn on this issue, as I believe the two (health testing and breeding dogs with correct working attributes and character) should be done together.  One shouldn't preclude the other.

[Hannahc7]

Thanks Jeff!   That's another area that has caused me confusion! So many breeders that have great lines haven't done health testing. One of the ones I am on the list for the Dad is tested but the Mum isn't however she is 8 years old so he said if there were any problems they would most likely have surfaced by now? She looked very healthy when I went to see her?
I have found there are more breeders that don't do health testing than do! Obviously I want a healthy pup but was beginning to think maybe I was asking for too much?