Author Topic: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out  (Read 1701 times)

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Offline Harveypops

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How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« on: October 25, 2009, 05:37:31 PM »
Oh my! Rather than go to the forest we have tried to have some bonding time with the dummy!
Help!!!!

This is our biggest hurdle.  >:(

For the last 8months Harvey has been the King of 'park-style' fetch.  He'll bomb at full pElt at you and drop the ball at your feet and then patiently wait for the command to go retireve it again. HOWEVER, I need him no to stop spitting the ruddy ball out  >:(

The trainer has shown me to give him the ball (we're starting with that as he holds that better than the dummy) and just touching his face and neck and saying 'hold it'. We've been doing that and for the first few days that seems to be working. HOWEVER, now he's not coming back to once he's got the ball, and today he wasn't coming back and then we he eventually did he spat the ball/dummy out!

HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLPPP!

Offline Nicola

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 06:08:45 PM »
I've typed half a reply to you Christina but OH is chuntering that we're late for going to the cinema so I've saved it and will finish it first thing tomorrow cos it won't make any sense as it is :005:

Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Harveypops

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 06:10:22 PM »
Cheers Nicola. I think poor Harvey is as confused as me at the moment, but I'm also thinking he's using this moment to take the mickey  >:D

Offline Nicola

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2009, 01:21:07 PM »
Right, finally got time to finish this! The problem is you're expecting a lot of him to instantly start delivering retrieves to you when he's been allowed to play casual fetch and drop things at your feet for the last 8 months. It's not impossible to retrain him to deliver properly at all but it just makes it harder as you have to undo what he's been taught up to now.

You've really got two issues going on - getting him to return straight to you with a retrieve and then getting him to hold it and not spit it out. I would break the exercise down and work on each component separately - the recall with the retrieve, the hold and finally the delivery. Forget about doing 'proper' retrieves for now and I would also forget about dummies to begin with - use a toy he really, really likes and is easy for him to pick up and return, even if it's a pair of your socks, it doesn't matter to begin with as long as he really likes it.  

For getting him to return to you start off by practising in a relatively confined space so that he can't start running rings around you. Throw the toy/socks/whatever and release him as usual and then go overboard encouraging him back to you - run backwards, get down on your knees, high pitched voice etc. as he's coming back towards you. If for whatever reason he changes direction or moves away from you, say 'ah ah!' and get after him straight away to get his attention back on you, once he's looking at you and coming back towards you use the high pitched voice to call him again. If I had a really reluctant dog though I would start to turn my back and walk away from them as they were on their way back, I would only pay them attention once they caught up with me and were walking beside me and then I would stop, get down to their level, gently take the item from their mouth and give loads of praise.

There are a few ways of teaching a hold, if I had a dog which spat retrieves I'd do it by starting again in the house with a soft foam ball as they're easy to pick up and they expand slightly behind the dog's teeth so are harder for them to spit out. I give it to the dog and when they take it I say 'hold' and gradually start building up the time I expect them to keep it in their mouths before asking them to give it back with the 'dead' command. As they're holding the item I reinforce the command and give lots of praise. You could use a clicker for training this if you do clicker training - just extend the time before you click and the dog can release the item.

As an example, with Caoimhe I only did a little bit of formal 'hold' training, I've done most of the work on this as we've gone along with her retrieving as I never, ever pick up anything she's dropped on the ground. I've never played casual fetching games with her, every retrieve is done properly and if she did drop the dummy or ball at my feet I would back up a few steps and ask her to fetch it to me again and repeat until she dropped it into my hand. To begin with I don't expect them to deliver anything perfectly, that takes a lot of work, but it starts with her making the connection that the dummy/ball goes into my hand and not onto the ground. I encourage her to come right back to me and even jump up on me when she has a retrieve, a perfect sitting delivery is nice and I teach it in time but it's not essential and to begin with the important thing is getting her back to me and getting her to hold on to what she's got. I never snatch retrieves from her, I take them slowly and calmly and sometimes I let her carry the item for a while before asking her to hand it over. Being too keen to snatch a retrieve from the dog's mouth (ironically enough often done to get the item before the dog spits it out) can encourage them to a) be reluctant to come right back to you or b) start spitting it out when still a few feet away from you.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Harveypops

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2009, 06:06:36 PM »
Cheers Nicola.  :D

We went bck to basic last night and I just threw the dummy in the living room and got him to come back to me with the dummy in his mouth and made a fuss whilst he was still holding the dummy. I think this is going to take alot of time.

He normally carries a toy around with him on walks. Should I keep letting him do that, or will that confuse him as he drops that wherever he pleases  ::) ::)

Cheers for that reply Nicola. That was really comprehensive and helpful  :D

Offline Nicola

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 06:42:56 PM »

He normally carries a toy around with him on walks. Should I keep letting him do that, or will that confuse him as he drops that wherever he pleases  ::) ::)


It really depends what results you want and what you want to do with the training as to how strict you want to be. I would never let Caoimhe do this but I start training them for working from the get-go and Caoimhe's going even further as I hope she might compete so I have had to be super-strict with her (and myself!) from day 1 on things like this. So if you want to actually work him 'properly' iykwim then I would say no, don't let him do this. However, if you're mostly doing it for fun and to progress his training then it's not going to be the end of the world if he likes to carry a toy around on occasion although I would stop it in any case for now at least until you've got the retrieving basics in place. Tilly and Rodaidh for example are both well beyond the stage where they know the difference in fetching for fun and 'proper retrieving' and I can let them carry toys and stuff if they want to as they know the difference in that and me asking them to properly retrieve a bird or a dummy.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Harveypops

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2009, 07:39:49 PM »
I'm gutted I didn't start this from when he was pup. I was toying between doing agility and the gundog training, but now having done obedience training with Harvey, I think he would benefit more from this as agility may wind him up a bit!

We're breaking it down and just doing it in the living room. I'm going to get up at silly a clock tomorrow and afer his walk try a bit in the playong field near us. Could I keep him on a longline and encourage him back if he goes a bit astray? Was thinking this morning that I may get him to walk to heel a bit once he's come back, carrying the tennis ball (his fav) for a bit and praise him load!

The weird thing is, if I hide the dummy in the house he's excellent sat coming back and holding it for me??

One quick qeustion before I do your head in, is 'dead' the term I have to use? My trainer uses that command as well. Can I carry on using drop as he seems to understand it?

This is really a hobby, but if I'm gonna do it I want to do it properly :lol:

Cheers again!

Offline Nicola

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 09:23:31 PM »
No you don't have to say 'dead', you can use any command you like, that's just the one I use and it's pretty standard but 'give', 'drop' etc. are all fine. I don't use longlines myself, I would probably try working on his retrieving without one, breaking it down into the stages and starting at home and in the garden as described first before I resorted to that.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Harveypops

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 10:11:37 PM »
Ok! Cheers! :lol:

Offline Harveypops

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 11:39:53 AM »
Well he's stop dropping the ball  :banana: :banana: :banana:

However, him coming back to me rather than tarting past me and doing a mini lap if vicotry is a work in progress.  :-\

He does it beautifully in the house, but I think I ran before I could walk this morning and tried it in the playing fields and off he went  >:D  I tried again against the fence, and he was better. I found that if I walked off and sked him to heel he was a lot better. I think this is not going to be an easy one  :-\

Thanks again Nicola.  :D

Offline DLK

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Re: How do I stop him from dropping the dummy out
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 07:45:45 PM »
Try a thin path so the dog can only run to you and not to the side.  This is far more affective than a fence.

I train my spaniels to spit the dummy out on command to the whistle so when you have mastered the hold I could tell you how to do the spit LOL
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