Gundog training for novices

[MUDDYBOOTS]

Hi I have decided I would like to try and do some gundog training with Benson my eight month old worker but I am not sure of the best way to go about it.

Is it best to go to gundog classes or enroll on a course assuming I can find one,or would it be better to find a trainer who does one to one training ( there are a couple of trainers locally who have good reputations,one runs springers in the england team ).

Is it possable to do gundog training if you don't shoot ( I don't ) and is it a serious disadvantage.

Assuming Benson (and me as his trainer) were able to achieve the required level of training what activities could we take part in.Would we be able to go beating,picking up,do working tests,scurries or are their any certificates we could aim for.

Any advice would be appreciated thanks.

[Cath]

Well done 

You can do gundog training even if you don't shoot. It is great stimulation for your dog and you will thouroughly enjoy it to.

One place you could start would be the gundog club http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/ their triaining books are good and you can go to training classes or arange 1 to 1 if there is a trainer in your area, you could work through the grades as and when you are both ready. There is quite a lot of info on their website, so it is worth a look.

Good luck and let us know how you both get on, most of all enjoy it!

[spanielcrazy]

You can certainly start him on your own as he will need basic obedience down pretty well: sit, stay, recall, quartering. You can also start him retrieving dummies. After that you will need a trainer, not only for the training but you will need access to birds and gunners. So no, you don't need to shoot to participate, and it's better that you don't while training as you need to focus all your attention on the dog. It's not a disadvantage at all  

I personally have no experience with gundog classes, I would think though that eventually you would need one to one experience.

You can aim for this:

 http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/470

go for field trials or just go rough shooting and beating

Here are a couple of good books to get you started:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Working-Gundogs-Introduction-Training-Handling/dp/1852237643/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273962874&sr=1-2

(Imagine my shock to see he has co-authored a book with Cesar Milan!!   Oh well, the above is still a good book)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Working-Springer-Spaniel-Keith-Erlandson/dp/1904057187/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273963040&sr=1-3

(don't let the title put you off, the training is the same and there is a good section on working cockers in it--he has a lot of respect for cockers)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Spaniels-Joe-Irving/dp/1853104191/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273963040&sr=1-5

[MUDDYBOOTS]

Thank you for your advice,just looked on the Gun Dog Club website and they have an eight week course for beginners with a Grade One Test at the end in Middlewich Cheshire,limited to six people in a class which seams good.Has anybody had any experience of these courses,the course starts on the 23rd may and I am tempted to enroll

[Nicola]

I haven't done the courses but Rodaidh's done a couple of the gundog club tests and they're good experience. Depending on the instructor you get I think the GC grade 1 course is good for novices as it's geared to beginners, provides you with a structure for the training and something to work towards.

You don't need to shoot to train or work your dog, I do shoot but haven't for the last couple of seasons as I prefer to concentrate on the dogs when we're out. To train a dog to working standard they do need exposure to live and dead game and they need to be shot over though so if that's what you'd be aiming for you'd need to find a trainer who can give you access to that.

[black taz]

I did grade 1 course with Taz but didn't reach the desired criteria to pass (basically we got 10/10 for heel work, 9/10 for the sit, then nothing - Taz decided that he didnt want to do the test and bogged off

My advice would be go along to a class to see if you like how the trainer works - my trainer was harsh to the extreme and looking back probably did us more harm than good.  the trainer completely demoralised me, very harsh with Taz.  by mid-course my confidence in handling Taz was at an all time low, which Taz picked up on which made training him even more difficult.  i spoke to the trainer on the phone before i joined the class, and he said that he didnt really need to have any prior obedience training - that he could do that (in fact Taz already had a steady sit and stay, recall was his problem).

I am actually starting with another trainer on tuesday night with Kira, my lab.  A woman i know  highly recommended him, you don't have to book onto a course, just turn up as you want, and best of all he doesnt man handle other peoples dogs.

I would say that you definately do need the basics in place, grade 1 just builds on these.  Good luck whatever you do.

[JulieNicholds]

Hi - I spent this Easter down in Dorset with Walter Harrison on one of his Novice Handler Gundog Courses - http://www.sunstarkennels.co.uk/dogtraining.htm - a friend and I took our 2 year old cockers down.  We did the ladies only course as the mixed course clashes with the start of the partridge season.

I did the same course about 13 years ago with my first worker Mocha (now 15) and although I have trained two other cockers inbetween, I just felt with Bliss that I needed abit more focus as she is sooooo different to all the others, there is such a difference between cockers 13 years ago and now adays.

The course was brilliant, although I wouldn't recommend it for anything under a year due to a fair bit of waiting about, and we were fortunate in that there were only x7 of us.   The course is aimed at the handler rather than the dog and I really did need reminding of the basics and to get rid of all the bad habits you build up after x4 cockers, one lab and now one clumber!!  Of the 7 of us only Rachel and I worked our dogs, there were a couple of people from London who just wanted a well behaved do, another for agility so you don't need to worry about not working them in the shooting field. 

Prior to going down Bliss had only paddled up to her ankles now she is the only blonde otter in Warwickshire and swims out to dummies like a demon - am v v chuffed!  Rachel's little dog wasn't a keen retriever but on the morning of the last day he did a spectacular retrieve on a rabbit.

Will probably take Florin down next year as am sure Walter would relish the challenge of a Clumber!!!

[MUDDYBOOTS]

Thanks for your replies, oh dear Black Taz sorry to here about your experience, I booked onto the course this mourning and have just seen your reply ( OOPS  ) so I hope our instructor uses more caring method's.I haven't been able to speak to the trainer yet but apparently she does not use harsh method's and uses clicker training with her own dogs but not on this course.Benson is quite a sensitive dog so I know he would not responder well to harsh training method's,and I would never let anyone subject him to that type of training anyway.
The course starts this sunday and I am really looking forward to it.I think it will be nice to be with a small group of people and dogs at the same level as Benson and myself and to see how we all progress,which is why I chose group training over one to one,but appreciate will probably need one to one later if we get that far .

[PippaMattinson]

To Black Taz  -  I am very sorry to hear that you have had an unpleasant experience at the hands of a Leicestershire gundog instructor. The Gundog Club removed a trainer in Leicestershire from our register in March as a result of our investigation into his conduct.  There is currently a warning notice about courses in Leicestershire up on the Gundog Club website.

Gundog training should be a happy and beneficial experience for all concerned and the Gundog Club is committed to ensuring high standards of professional and humane conduct in all its trainers and assessors,  all our trainers are required to agree not to use harsh training methods.

To Muddyboots  - The trainer in Middlewich is a very kind lady and I hope that you and your dog have a  lovely time training with her. 

Good luck with your course
Kind regards
Pippa

[milly]

I think there are pros and cons to the course. One problem is that not all dogs achieve within the same timeframe (same as children), what your dog does when you train on your own can go out of the window in a group, even a small group and unfortunately you tie yourself into a specific time frame with a course.

I booked grade 1 with the gundog club, I booked annual leave from work to attend the course as I worked full time. Two weeks before the course start date I recieved an email saying my course had a price reduction as it wasn't full, I understand they do it to fill the course rather than cancel it but the reduction didn't apply to me as I'd already paid.
A week before the course I recieved another email saying regretably the dates were changed, I couldn't change my annual leave at short notice so they refunded me.
In all honesty it did me a favour, I nagged my gundog trainer (who I'd had one to one's with) into setting up a gundog group and I've found that better, instead of tying myself into a course consisting of a few weeks we have ongoing training, novice, advanced, spaniel training and now a working test.
I wish you well with it but despite my wanting to do it and booking it I felt let down.

[Cath]

Hope you and Benson have a great time on Sunday, let us know how you get on 

[black taz]

Can i just take the opportunity here to thank the Gundog Club.  Following my previous post, they have investigated and the instructor that i trained with is the one that was removed from their trainer list.  they take their responsibilities very seriously.