Gundog Training

[max2011]

Max is now 6 months and I have noticed that his training has gone to pot a bit ie he is being selective in responding to commands and cheeky in that he is trying to get me to come to him to throw his ball rather than bring it to me. When I tell him to bring it nearer he moves it about an inch at a time!! All of this could be my fault as with the kids off school training has been less and they aren't helping things by letting him get away with not responding etc. Plus I guess he is getting to that testing age!

Anyway I got the gundog passing grade 1 manual for Christmas so have been reading through it to see what obedience training I can do with Max. One thing they do is teach that a sit means stay in seated position until released. I quite like this idea and was thinking of starting on it when the girls are back at school. Just wondered how many people have taught their dogs this and whether it is a good idea when I don't necessarily plan to work him. Also will it interfere with other training programmes as he moves onto bronze in January.

Thanks, Kate

[cfordham2710]

Yes it will be good cos you can use it for other scenarios, ie stopping at kerb when on walks, etc..... plus any training is good cos it works their brains and stops them getting bored

[Eve]

One long whistle to train to sit on command is an excellent one. I've been training Dexter to do this. So it can be used not only to get them to sit but also as a stop command.  If they are running toward you and you have trained your dog to sit on one blow of the whistle then then will automatically stop/sit and wait.

[emma_and_tilly]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but I really like the idea of training Tilly with a whistle...she's two, have I left it too late?

Thanks, Emma

[max2011]

Hi, in the book the stop/sit whistle training follows on once you have the verbal sit, praise, release command working.

The whistle works brilliantly for recall so would like to use it for sitting on command too.

Emma - am sure it is never to late to introduce the whistle but as a new puppy owner I am no expert but sure someone will let you know. I followed Top Barks sticky for recall - it is brilliant.

[Karma]

We teach that sit means sit and stay in the puppy classes I help at now....

Obviously, as it's not gundog specific, we don't use a whistle command, but the method could easily be adapted to use whistle if you wanted to.

We use clicker to train... first lure into a sit position, click and treat... if dog stays in postion click and treat again and again for 5 repeats... (if your dog is used to clicker being a release, this might take some time to achieve...)... you then need to introduce a release command (we advise "free", though we taught "ok" for Honey when she was a pup!) - say the release command and encourage your dog to move.
Gradually space out the click/treats and gradually introduce handler movement and other distractions.

If you are just looking to sure up positions, look up Kikopup on You Tube, as they have a great video for really getting the sit, down and stand positions ingrained... it is their method which inspired the change of approach at our dog training school.  

We also trained Honey sit-stay (as in sit means sit and stay) without using a clicker in our obedience classes....
We would put Honey in a sit, and continue to feed treats (always bringing the treat up to our chest before giving to the dog).... at first it was just keep feeding almost constantly... then introuce a little gap, then maybe a step away... always returning and giving a treat and calm praise.  If at any point the dog moved, we just said "Blew it" and treats went away... no more sit-stay training for that session.  Honey quickly learned that staying in position was rewarding, while moving wasn't....  over time you would put the pot of treats on the floor in front of the dog, while you walk away (up to out of sight), return and give the dog a treat from the pot, but this is after weeks of building up!  For obedience we had a very specific release... we would return to the dog's right-handside, walk once around the dog and then pat the dog on their left shoulder saying "ok" (or "free"), this was so the dogs wouldn't get confused by judges walking around them in a competition situation.  

[SteveB]

It's a little bit different if you want to work the dog rather than show the dog, as the idea is for the dog to look at you waiting hand signals on what to do next. The release we use is away. If it is in the street stopped at pavements etc the only command we give when thay are sat is heel. Have never used a clicker only voice and whistle

[sarahR]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but I really like the idea of training Tilly with a whistle...she's two, have I left it too late?

Thanks, Emma

We rehomed George when he was 10 months old and the first 2 weeks he  hadn't a clue what the whistle was. He soon cottoned on as Ozzie would rush back to us for her bit of sausage. Practise at home first. See sticky thread its brilliant. I don't think she would be to old.

[emma_and_tilly]

thanks both of you.....my new years resolution sorted now!!

Emmax

[seaangler]

One whistle to stop(or to get the dogs attention) and two short burst on the whistle to come back ....

Is what we are using...in G/D Training...

Dogs cant hear clickers a hundred yards away

[Top Barks]

One whistle to stop(or to get the dogs attention) and two short burst on the whistle to come back ....

Is what we are using...in G/D Training...

Dogs cant hear clickers a hundred yards away

You wanna bet Chris? 

[Karma]

It doesn't matter what command/signal you use to ask for the command - what the OP has asked for was methods for training the fact that sit=sit/stay.  You can use a hand signal, a verbal command or a whistle to ask for the sit... that's entirely up to the individual and the circumstances - by the time you are using a sit at such a distance that a clicker wouldn't be heard, you would be unlikely to still be using a clicker anyway (it really is a long way away!!).

Honey, trained using the obedience style method I described, will sit/stay at a distance with a hand signal.  We haven't used a whistle for a command, but it would be easy to introduce if I wanted to...    I would start close up, giving the hand signal (which Honey understands) at the same time as the whistle command I would like to use.  I would continue to use them together for a good few repetitions, then I would start to blow the whistle before the hand signal, to give her the chance to think and comply on just the whistle. 
With a dog used to a verbal command, I would start out with the verbal command quickly followed by the whistle and once the whistle had been repeated in this manner sufficiently for the dog to get the idea, I would try the whistle first... if dog didn't comply would return to verbal followed by whistle. 
Personally I would use a clicker to help reinforce this, but it wouldn't be necessary by any stretch of the imagination, it's just Honey is used to working with the clicker, so it would speed the process up.  I would also give the whistle command and immediately click/treat any time Honey offered a sit while we were training. 
I would only progress to sitting at a distance on the whistle once Honey knew the whistle command did indeed mean sit. 

[SteveB]

One whistle to stop(or to get the dogs attention) and two short burst on the whistle to come back ....

Is what we are using...in G/D Training...

Dogs cant hear clickers a hundred yards away

You wanna bet Chris? 

With guns going off

[Karma]

One whistle to stop(or to get the dogs attention) and two short burst on the whistle to come back ....

Is what we are using...in G/D Training...

Dogs cant hear clickers a hundred yards away

You wanna bet Chris? 

With guns going off

But you wouldn't be using a clicker once a dog was actually working.... it's a training tool... 

[Top Barks]

One whistle to stop(or to get the dogs attention) and two short burst on the whistle to come back ....

Is what we are using...in G/D Training...

Dogs cant hear clickers a hundred yards away

You wanna bet Chris?  

With guns going off

Don't be silly, do you know anything about how clickers are used??
You ever read clicker gun dog? If not maybe worth a look Steve, oh I forgot you only go and watch shoots don't you, maybe no need to bother then

clicker trained stop whistle displayed by my boys here  http://youtu.be/sx6E5xoWKhk

And here http://youtu.be/W9L8WYU9Efg

At the end of this one you see how i use a clicker and whistle in the initial stages http://youtu.be/AC0usk1Azhw