CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: MrsMac on November 10, 2006, 09:34:54 AM
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We've been going to training classes locally since April. We did a 10 week stint with the puppy class and Melody behaved like a perfect :angel: and did everything and more that she was asked to. It got to the stage where I was quite embarrassed because the instructor/trainer would always use us as an example of 'how it should be done' whenever she was introducing a new thing to the class. I had always trained Melly at home so she knew most of the stuff we were taught at classes before we did them. She passed the Puppy class with flying colours :luv:
Now we've just finished our Bronze classes although we have our exam this Sunday and I'm dreading it :-\
Our trainer uses a village hall and she has white plastic sheeting taped to the floor for us to walk on for all our training. Everything is ok when Melody and I are walking on this sheeting but when we sit down inbetween tasks she goes a bit mad >:D She refuses to sit next to me and backs off from me so she can sit on the plastic sheeting. I refuse to move off my seat so she ends up almost strangling herself to get to the sheeting. I think she has sussed she gets tasty treats when she's normally on the sheeting cos once she sits on it she looks at me and whines :005: as if to say 'come on - gis a sosage' :005:
Over the last couple of sessions I've been trying to ignore this behaviour and treating her when she sits next to me but its driving me nuts, she has always been so good. The noise she makes when she's doing this is incredible - almost to the extent that the trainer can't be heard at times :embarassed:
Apart from that she is refusing to do sit/stay and down/stay - although we've been practising lots this week I don't have high hopes about passing the Bronze stage this week :-\
Any ideas what I can do with her re the plastic sheeting???
Sorry this is soooooo looooong :005:
ETA: I realise she's probably going through a teenage rebellion what with her just turning 1 last week but even the trainer commented on her behaviour last weekend so I need to do something about it before she thinks she's in control ::)
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Are you still training her in different places - not just in the hall, on the sheeting ? you need to reinforce ALL the training in your house, your garden, at the park, anywhere you can..... she has definitely realised she gets "worked" on the sheeting - clever girl :005: Hattie does the same - I took her to a studio on Tuesday, we were casting some kids for a job - so Hattie was the "stunt dog" to see if kids liked dogs. Anyway she kept pulling towards the white lit up area - over and over again, because she knows that is where we "work".... you just gotta persevere with the stays.... what do you mean she is refusing ? you mean she is breaking the stay - then you go back a step or two - reward her for staying shorter times, shorter distances away from you....
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Yep she's breaking the sit/stay and down/stay by following me and not sitting or doing down when I ask her >:D Previously she could do up to 5 mins with her 'stays'. I'm lucky to get 30 seconds now :-\
I have continued with her training as normal at home as I've always done and she's ok at home apart from her 'stays'. She just goes mad at classes, when she backs off, away from me her collar tightens round her neck and her eyes look like they're going to pop out :o and the noise is unbelieveable!!
Am I doing the right thing by trying to ignore her efforts to get to the plastic sheeting? I reward her for sitting by my side but someone said I'm rewarding her mad behaviour.
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I pulled Molo out of the Bronze Class after he "graduated" from puppy class - he was just too disruptive for the others and neither he or I enjoyed it :-\
I carried on working with him at home, and then went back (to a different training class) when he was about two - when he could focus on me, but was still young enough to break any habits he may have developed ::)
Perhaps Melody is not quite ready for this class; you might both benefit from a break??
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I didn't take either of mine to classes after the puppy class until they were older either and if there was a problem with anything in between those classes I just had the odd 1-2-1
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Up til now we've both enjoyed the classes and Melody absolutely loves walking to heel and doing the tasks. I really only have a problem when we have to sit at the sidelines :005:
Its only been this week she's been refusing to sit/stay etc. When I say refuse I mean I tell her to sit and she just stands there looking at me. She's either gone deaf overnight or she's doing a Kevin on me :005:
We've got our exam this weekend then we're on a break til the end of January so I'll see how it goes. I don't think we'll be going up to the Silver class somehow but I have a few weeks to work on her inbetween classes.
I enrolled us for classes so we could meet up with likeminded doggy people - we rarely meet anyone on our walks so its good for Melody to be around other dogs. There's only about 10 dogs at the class - 1 other cocker called Cookie :luv:
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can you get into the hall to practice her sits when its empty?
we did these tests in rogart and my sisters deerhound needed practice walking around the hall as the echeos spooked him and we were lucky enough to be allowed in to desensitise him when it wasnt being used both henry ( deerhound) and liath went on and got their golds but the extra quiet hall work really helped. maybe you could go there earlier before the class.
penels right about training your dogs in different places.. this is a quick rolo story. I was teaching him a stay so I was up the meadow behind my house and tied him with a long line to a fence. I practiced for a while going further and further away and put him back to the exact spot at the fence if he moved. then I untied the lead but left it clipped on and said stay moved off about 10 yards walked back and praised him. clever dog I thought. next day up meadow again in a different part of the meadow, lead off, I put him into a sit, said stay and prepared to move off when like a rocket rolo raced away......
....... I raced after him, I couldnt believe my eyes.. he was about a quarter of a mile away sitting in the exact spot by the fence, where Id trained him in the day before. He was glued to the ground, stumpy tail thumping away, tongue lolling looking soooo pleased with himself for doing it right!!he was brighter than me! I had to review rolos training pattern asap! but it just shows you inadvertantly Id taught Rolo that stay was sit by the fence!
anyway good luck with melody and dont get stressed its meant to be fun, rolo never got to do these classes as theyd stopped but They were great fun. we all made great friends and still dog walk together. good luck!
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She is maybe picking up on your anxiety about this test.
Don't worry about it!
If she doesn't pass then so what, she is not ready.
Good dogs don't happen all of a sudden, success happens when you both have put enough time into achieving certain behaviours.
I wouldn't pile on the pressure on you or the dog (been there, done that) as the dog tends to shut down.
people ask way too much of their dogs(been there, done that)to soon sometimes.
If it were me I would forgetworrying about the test, do it without a care and if she passes fine, if not re evaluate where you are with her, where you want to go and how best to achieve it.
A thought about the sidelines, can you get a decent sized square of this material and plonk it down next to you? treat like mad for her being next to you on the sheeting and over a number of sessions decrease the size of the sheet until you can fade it altogether.
She needs to learn it is being with you and not being on the sheet that is the most rewarding place.
Agreeing with penel yet again with regard to the stays, look at what she can do now and first increase duration with you close before working on moving away.
Evaluate where you are now with this behaviour and plan what you are going to do to move it forward.planning is the most over looked tool in the trainers tool box.
I am teaching Bayley to get me a bottle of water from the firdge and keeping a training diary and have a plan to work to.
I look to raise the bar of what I am looking for just one notch each session.
I do 5 or 10 reps of the behaviour I want and I look for an 80% success rate before I move to the next criterion.
remember only ask for small steps and keep rewards freequent.
Training must be fun, in effect for the dog it must be controlled play.
Best of luck
Mark
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Thanks for that Mark ;)
As I've said she's always been perfect with all her commands up until last week. I've been waiting for a teenage moment like this I just didn't think she'd 'forget' everything we've done - we train together for an hour a day at 10 minute intervals throughout the day. She has 45 mins of stuff she knows for sure like sit/stay etc then 15 minutes of something new we're working on. Just now that's 'Stand'. I always end the training with a few tries at something she can do so we always end on a positive if you see what I mean.
She may be calling my bluff because I took her into the garden tonight and after the first 5 minutes she did everything perfectly :angel: then again she'll do anything for a bit of sausage :005: She did sit/stay for a minute which although not her norm I'm happy with for the moment.
That's an excellent idea about getting a piece of the sheeting for her to sit on beside me, why didn't I think of that? ? I'll let you know how it goes ;) :D
Thanks everyone ;)
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If i was working on the stand depending on the dog I would probably do 5 or 10 reps, look at how many matched the picture in my head of the behaviour and if 80% were right we'd up the anti for the next set of reps butin between I would have some real play going on before finishing the session for the dog to have some thinking time.
I would not go straight back in and do another session.
Have you ever heard of latent learning?
I first came across it when teaching doug to roll over.
He was just not getting the last little bit, so I put it to bed for a few days in frustration.
I then went back and found this clever little man had worked it out what i wanted and did it first time and everytime since.
I had a similar instance with Bayley picking up a water bottle from the fridge shelf.
He was getting his teeth round it but then seemed to hit a wall.
I rewarded him for this mouthing and left it.
2 days later I had another go and low and behold straight in his mouth and straight to me.
Amazing what a bit of thinking time can do for a dog.
And we thought all they ever dreamed about were pheasants, rabbits, food and toys.
How wrong can you be.
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This is similar to how Melody learnt to lie down. I was trying to get her to do it on and off for a week or two and I wasn't really getting anywhere. I left it for a few days and the next time I tried it she managed 1st time.
I'm finding training and dog behaviour two very interesting subjects, with Melody being the first dog I've really trained I'm learning as I go.
I've just googled it and it seems Melody and I are both latent learning :005:
In one or two of our training sessions at home I play fetch with Melly (to reinforce her recall) she brings whatever I've launched to the bottom of the garden and we play this for a while til I call time. Should I play this kind of game or should I change to something else?
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Maybe someone should tell Aspen about latent learning! I still can't get him into a down and we have been trying since May ph34r 89u
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This is similar to how Melody learnt to lie down. I was trying to get her to do it on and off for a week or two and I wasn't really getting anywhere. I left it for a few days and the next time I tried it she managed 1st time.
I'm finding training and dog behaviour two very interesting subjects, with Melody being the first dog I've really trained I'm learning as I go.
I've just googled it and it seems Melody and I are both latent learning :005:
In one or two of our training sessions at home I play fetch with Melly (to reinforce her recall) she brings whatever I've launched to the bottom of the garden and we play this for a while til I call time. Should I play this kind of game or should I change to something else?
I do retrieves, play raggies or even hide and seek.
Do whatever your dog enjoys.
the aim is to try and make the play part of the training and the training into one big game.
Short bursts followed by play and then thinking time is the way i do it now.
If you are having fun with your dog it will want to repeat the behaviours it offers whilst doing so.
I used to heap way too much pressure on Doug to perform and I'd always have him doing some trick or another.
He shut down on me several times and now I just do little bits and look to see how he's feeling about things.
If he is not tuned in or not enjoying what we're doing I pack it in and either leave it or play with him.
mark
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Thanks so much, this has been a great help Mark ;)
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We passed :D she was an :angel: :luv:
(http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/MrsMac_/3bc3034e.jpg)
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Way to go Melody :shades:
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:luv: :luv: :luv:
well done lovely Melody :D :D
she looks gorgous in the piccy and very very proud of hersel :luv: :luv:
well done 2 you 2 4 expert handaling ;) :005: :-* :-*
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Thanks Lisa but really it was the sausages wot dun it ;) :005:
She was very well behaved today, she did try to pull herself backwards onto the plastic sheeting but no where near as much as normal. I think she must have been reading this thread :lol:
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aaawww well done to you both :D
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Yay!!!!!! :luv:
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Well done! :D
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awwwww....CONGRATULATIONS
you and melody have worked so hard for this - you must be very proud (and relieved!!!) :luv:
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Well Done Melody :luv: :luv:
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well done Melody !!!!
:luv:
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awwwww....CONGRATULATIONS
you and melody have worked so hard for this - you must be very proud (and relieved!!!) :luv:
Thanks, I train with her for 10-15 mins every day so everything she does at her training classes is normally 2nd nature to her which is why I panicked a bit when she stopped doing it >:D
However she was great today, almost as if she knew it was her moment :005:
Of course since then she's come home and eaten the hand off a power ranger and chewed a hole in my son's sock, but hey, that's life :005:
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clever clever girl. shes so pretty. I just think shes a wee star. :luv:
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Well done Melody and Mhairi :luv:
Love the pic, she looks very proud of herself :luv:
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:D :D :D
Aww congratulations to you both, shes gorgeous and very clever with it :luv:
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Congratulations! Clever things (both of you!) :D
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congratulations on passing! :D That is a lovely pic of her with her ribbon. Well Done!
Is she still finding sitting still difficult? This probably seems silly, as she is getting the attention she wants...but...have you tried doing things with her whilst you are sitting still? Like...sit/down/stand sequences. Giving paws, rolling over, etc. Little tricks to keep her going, and help her realize that sitting at the side doesnt have to be boring?
I would agree with the others...maybe go back and teach her stays again. And make the reward for completing a stay huge!
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congratulations on passing! :D That is a lovely pic of her with her ribbon. Well Done!
Is she still finding sitting still difficult? This probably seems silly, as she is getting the attention she wants...but...have you tried doing things with her whilst you are sitting still? Like...sit/down/stand sequences. Giving paws, rolling over, etc. Little tricks to keep her going, and help her realize that sitting at the side doesnt have to be boring?
I would agree with the others...maybe go back and teach her stays again. And make the reward for completing a stay huge!
She has been better with her sit/stay and her down/stay but we've been refreshing this over the past few days and that's kept it fresh in her mind.
When we are at the classes in the training hall she never sits close to me anymore but at the exam on Sunday I praised and gave her treats for sitting next to me so she was much better behaved. I ignored her completely when she was going mental trying to sit on the plastic sheeting but praised and treated her for staying by my side.
When we start our Silver award classes next year I'm going to take one of my old jumpers for her to sit on beside me. It hadn't even occurred to me to take anything for her to sit on but I notice some others had done this so it may help Melody, we do spend 5 minutes here and there sitting out for whatever reason so I'll give it a try.
Thanks everyone for your good wishes, it just makes me even more proud of my little girly (if that's at all possible ;) :D)
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Well done Melly :D :luv:
She looks so proud of herself in the photo, she's adorable :luv:
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Well done!! must admit Frankie her brother is one clever boy ;)
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Hope all goes well with the jumper...it's definitely worth a try :D
Good Luck for your silver...and...again...welll done!
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Congratulations Mairi and Melody :D
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Well done!! must admit Frankie her brother is one clever boy ;)
Gilly we love him too but then we're biased :luv: :005: I was hoping we wouldn't let the side down at the weekend ;) Whisper (her sister :luv:) did well too.