Young children and puppy playing

[sassyhay]

Hello,

I'm a new dog owner (Guinness, 10 weeks old, show cocker) and a worrier - but finding this site so helpful for good advice and reassurance.  So here goes my second post in three days :-)

As Guinness can't go 'out' yet, I have been trying to socialise him by taking him to friends and families houses, or carrying him around outside.  My next door neighbour has been really great, allowing me to visit regularly and particularly inviting me around when she is babysitting her grand-daughter, who is 15 months old.  As we don't have children, I am taking every opportunity I can to spend time with children, as many of my friends have young families, and I want Guinness to be calm and well-behaved around children.

I have a 2 year old niece and we have also spent time with her... but here's my question, is it OK to make the puppy really excitable around children this young?

I am pretty cautious by nature, and with my niece, we have spent time doing gentle stroking, teaching my niece not to touch him when he's asleep or eating, and feeding little treat's when Guinness is sitting quietly, in the hope he will find the experience enjoyable.  None of my family has previously owned a dog, and as we are all cautious by nature, this feels right to us.

However, it is a very different story when I visit my neighbours - who have previously owned dogs and had puppies recently.  My neighbours daughter (and mum to the little girl) really plays vigorously with Guinness (not pulling or tugging him) but getting him very excited and chasing around a lot.  To be fair to Guinness, he has been really quite good, but as he's at the stage of 'play biting' I get worried he will nip the little girl.  They have told me not to worry, but my concern is that this maybe teaching him bad habits.  I don't want to paint the picture that they are completely dismissive of what could happen - as I know them to be very caring, responsible people - and the little girl is very calm and relaxed around the puppy.

I just wondered what people's thought were?  Is this normal puppy play and I should relax a bit... or should I say that I'm not comfortable with it, and ask them to stop.  They are great people - who are offering to 'doggy sit' and would be really upset if they thought they had done something I really didn't like - but I just haven't a clue if this is what we should all be doing!

All advice really gratefully received! I'm starting puppy classes tomorrow so had planned to ask the trainer, but then thought all the helpful (experienced!) people on here might be able to help!

[Markr64]

Dexter is now just over 5 months old and we have an 8 and 10 year old at home. We have made sure that they don't get him too excited as we had a real problem with puppy biting which has really now almost stopped due to hard work and lots of training.

He is your dog and what you want is what should happen, the trainer I hope will tell you that rough play is not a good thing and especially when it is not a family member.

Don't worry about asking questions on here, I am still quite new to this site, read through many of the old posts when you have time as with a 10 week old pup your time will be taken up with play and training. The last thing is that you are correct to get him socialized as much as you can as it will help with his development in many ways.

Have fun with him. Mark

[Pearly]

Whilst you may be new to owning a dog you already have my respect for asking sensible questions  Mark is right and IMO it's great that your neighbours want to help but it has to be by your rules (or not at all) and I think you are spot on, the earlier you start with gentle, calming play the better.  Otherwise you are just training your pup to be wild and out of control - something you won't want him to do when he's older!

I have two dogs, Pearl is now 4.5 and Coral just 8 months - I have lovely neighbours who are supposed to let them out each day (an arrangement  ) but do a lot more.....Pearl is walked but I asked before Coral arrived that they didn't take her as I wanted time to bond with her myself, plus training and a walk would be too much in a day  they have respected this although the request not to give treats hasn't worked quite so well (the secret stash seems to be going down  ) both dogs love my Neighbour and her son and I'm very grateful of their help as it means I don't have to dash home at the end of work

[sassyhay]

Thank you both for your replies! It makes sense to me not to get him too excited... as I'm sure he can't control himself in those situations...

And yes Markr64, I have started reading through the forums, very helpful!  But there is a lot to read...

And it made me smile about the treats too... we haven't feed him from the table at all (or given him our food), although it's only been two weeks!!! But had to stop same neighbours offering to give him chicken from the table!  I guess we all have different ways of bringing up our puppies, I just have a 'pet' hate (literally) of table begging dogs and at least if I don't encourage it, I can say I tried! 

[Patp]

Welcome to the forum.

Why not take a small blanket whenever you go out and teach your puppy to sit on it to receive a treat from the young person?  Socialising is just as much about being comfortable and quiet in many situations than running around and interacting.

The problem always is that they are keen to do this whilst you have a puppy would wont be as accepting if a fully grown dog is behaving the same way.

Why not say that you are concentrating on training at the moment to raise a well rounded, contented dog and set down some rules and training that they can get involved with, if you really want to include them.   There is nothing wrong with a little rough play but it should stop when you think enough is enough.  Pup on blanket with a gravy bone and told to "settle".

Makes it easier to take them to new places (like pubs after COL meets) too

[PennyB]

I agree re the training and getting children involved plus it trains the child as well

I hate to see rough play with dogs whoever it is as it creates the wrong sort of behaviour in dogs as they grow up - often best not to start if its hard to get person who's doing it to know when to stop (I remember when Ruby was 6 months old and she'd get so hyper playing with the rope tug thing with me I had to stop until she was older - she'd get overexcited and accidentally bite my hand trying to get hold of the tug again so it wasn't about knowing when to stop it jsut needed to stop all together - when she got older it was fine doing this game with her)

[sassyhay]

Hello again... and sorry I didn't reply after the last responses - works and puppies = not much spare time!

So I have made a firm decision to try and limit 'rough' play, especially around children, as Guinness just seems to escalate the play until the point he can't control himself and accidentally bites.  It really doesn't seem to be aggression, just over-exuberance and then mistakes happen (all my fault, not his).  This has started to happen when we play with most type of toys, and although I was practicing stopping, standing still and just ignoring it - often he could amuse himself for a good 5 minutes just hanging off my jumper or jeans!!!!

We have been to two puppy classes so far and when I mentioned this to the trainer, she suggested limiting any type of activities that could over-excite him (playing with a toy, training with treats etc.) to about two minutes at a time - to try and prevent him getting too excited in the first place.  This seemed a bit mean to me at first (i.e. only playing with him for 2 minutes), but honestly it does seem to help. 

And now I just need to try and get other people who are always so excited to see a puppy, from not over-exciting him and making him the absolute centre of attention - as that sends him into over-drive!!!  Thanks for all your advice.

[sodpot2000]

I think you are being perfectly sensible. The last thing you want is to end up with a fully grown dog who thinks that small children are toys and is liable to knock them flying. As you have correctly realised you don't want to teach things to the puppy that you wouldn't want to be done when the puppy has grown and become a 2 stone (unguided) missile.