How do you deal with command failure?

[bizzylizzy]

Having been glued to Crufts all weekend, I'm all fired up and ready to start being more consistant with training!! 
A couple of you pointed out recently the importance of not repeating a command and I've taken that onboard re recall etc but I'm still a bit confused as to how exactly should I deal with "sit". There  was a close distraction this morning and I very stupidly reacted with a "sit, siiit, SIT!"  which I realized immediately, was completely wrong , but what would have been the best thing to do?  (His sit command is usually spot on, even at distance, -  the distraction was the problem but I wasn't able to put anymore dstance between it and us) I want to start a down at distance soon, but down even in the house, is still very hit and miss still, - he DOES understand but just doesn't always want  to do it.
My (ex) trainer, (we don't go anymore) , used to insist that we should never allow a command to be disobeyed and should always see the exercise through but should always end up on a positive note, but its hard to do both (?)
The dilema is actually the same for heel, or fetch, or whatever - what DO you do when the dog's not cooperating although you know they understand what you you want? 

[Londongirl]

I have a similar issue with sit at a distance and what I've been doing is working on these commands more at home and in non-distracting circumstances outside to get them more reliable. At home if we are practicing sit or down, I only reward the really instant ones, using the clicker for speed. Now that is better, I am also introducing a sit at distance. Again, I reward an instant sit. If he's a bit slow, I get a bit closer, release him and and do it again. If he sits faster, reward (which is what usually happens). If he flat out refuses, I move on to something positive for a few minutes (throw some treats in the grass, play a bit of tuggy) then try again.

In the circumstances you describe this morning, if his 'sit' with certain distractions isn't good then he hasn't really disobeyed a command, as he hasn't got it yet. Does that make sense? One-off failures in circumstances you have yet fully trained for aren't really failures, in my opinion. Also, for distractions I probably wouldn't use a sit, but an interrupter to get his attention back on me then encourage a recall.

As an aside, Henry HATES lying down on command so I'm really focusing on the sit-stay outdoors and gently encouraging 'down' at home for now. I think for some dogs 'down' can be tricky because it feel vulnerable.

[ips]

I think we are all guilty of this. Not giving a command more than once is easier said than done particularly if you find yourself in a different "context" presumably this distraction was doing exactly that and distracting the dogs attention away from the command. Incidentally I am intrigued as to the exact scenario were the sit was disobeyed. My girl will "usually" sit no problem but if she doesn't for whatever reason I will use a different command as in, verbal was ignored so a stern look and a hand gesture usually does the trick, or a whistle command. Technically it is repeating the command but the alternative I fear is physically making the dog sit. So options Imo are limited to physically enforcing the ignored command, using another "same" command or waiting it out.

Ps
This is a brilliant question / topic for discussion 👍

[ips]

Ps
Great post Londongirl.
We are assuming the dog knows the command in the given context if it does not then it isn't guilty of none compliance and the command needs proofing

[TirelessTitch]

Same problem with Titch at the moment - well perhaps an earlier stage, he's learning to sit at road junctions and crossings. He doesn't always sit at first request, sometimes I have to then give hand signal, more rarely I then have to very gently put my finger on his rear end (no pushing, just a touch) and he usually then remembers what I want.

At moment I'm a bit ,more concerned with his totally ignoring me in the house. This morning he just sat in the hall looking at me as if I was an idiot when I called him in to the kitchen for his meal, and this has been happening more often. I just don't think I should have to tempt a natural food hoover to eat his brekky...

[bizzylizzy]

I think we are all guilty of this. Not giving a command more than once is easier said than done particularly if you find yourself in a different "context" presumably this distraction was doing exactly that and distracting the dogs attention away from the command. Incidentally I am intrigued as to the exact scenario were the sit was disobeyed. My girl will "usually" sit no problem but if she doesn't for whatever reason I will use a different command as in, verbal was ignored so a stern look and a hand gesture usually does the trick, or a whistle command. Technically it is repeating the command but the alternative I fear is physically making the dog sit. So options Imo are limited to physically enforcing the ignored command, using another "same" command or waiting it out.

Ps
This is a brilliant question / topic for discussion 👍

The situation was our "notorious" neigbour (see my "elated" post of last week!  ) only this time, he had his GSD and a bike, the path was particularly narrow at that point so I wasn't able to give him a wide enough berth and I also anticipated that we weren't going to have a repeat of Humphrey's wonderful performance of last week (I've learned to read him now!! ) I'd seen him approaching, did a stop/sit at distance, which was perfect, (the chap did have the grace to stop and wait at this point)  I walked to him and put the lead on (he was still sitting) but as the man got closer he started to get up and pull refused to sit.  On a normal walk with no distractions, he's really pretty good, we include a few recalls, stop/sit at distance with whistle, walk to heel etc every time we go out. I can put him into sit and walk round the corner and disappear and he'll stay put but he just cannot manage a distraction, (which  is why I subsequently gave up on over crowded training classes). He'll be 2 in a couple of months, so this isn't something he's just learning and I really don't know how to "get tougher" without using physical force or putting any sort of pressure on him that might undo all the work we've done - or would you physically make him sit? I really appreciate your comments! THanks!

[ips]

Not "too" heinous a crime really then. I wonder if pooch would have remained sat if you hadn't put the lead on ?? I know eze turns into a totally different dog when lead goes on. My theory (of my bitch anyway) and I am confident that I am correct, is that when lead goes on she feels secure enough to turn all concentration off. Mine would have more chance of staying sat in that scenario off a lead (believe it or not) I wouldn't be too hard on yourself or the dog, stayed sat long enough to pop a lead on. Furthermore no way would mine stay sat if I walked around a corner that is for sure 😉

Edit for Ps
Just thought. Another sit command when dog self released from the sit is not a repeat command because the dog complied with the initial command and self released due to the distraction so technically (in the dogs mind anyway) this was a new scenario that required further instruction as to what to do in the context of the situation. In other words another sit command would Imo be in order without breaking the golden rule.

I had a similar thing. I walk our single track country lane regular with eze off lead. She knows when the rare occurrence of a car approaches she sits on the grass verge. This was reliable until she got so used to what happens next she self released from the sit as the car passed us. The car going passed effectively became a release command. I had to re-train by giving further sit commands just before the self release. This is not in my view a repeat command. Now she knows to stay sat until "I" release her, in case there is a second car. Not exactly the same situation as yours but similar in as much as having to give same command twice.
I was told by a trainer once (not mine as I have never been to one) that reading the dog and stepping in before "bad things happen" is crucial that way the dog is never in a position to do wrong and you have less chance of an ignored recall (for instance) this has proven to be very useful during beating when things start getting "hot? My point is better a "perceived" repeat command than a bog off dog 😉

[Londongirl]

Yes, I'd agree, Humphrey did very well all considered!

Another thought re sit: I'm teaching a release word for every situation where I want Henry to stay put until I say so: sit, down or sent to his 'boundary' (we have one in every room, either a mat or a bed). I'm working on generalising it to as many situations as I can so he doesn't decide for himself when to move. It's a work in progress but seems to be sinking in. Also, the release means 'come to me for your reward', so it's also a recall. If I use any other word, it means he can carry on as he was.

[bizzylizzy]

Thank you so much for your comments  ips and LG, looking at it like that, it does make sense. I'm pretty sure that indeed Humphrey probably would have been better without the lead but I just don't trust the GSD. Strangely enough, we've just got back from our afternoon walk and he's walked to heel without lead  within about 3 feet of a goat kid that had escaped the pen  - but then I'm probably more relaxed with a 3 week old goat than the GSD, so maybe that's another factor (?). I do think that maybe he picks up on my reactions    Re the "car" exercise, we've experienced the identical situation, so I realize that you're probably right there too and that it is ok to repeat the command!
LG - that's a good point about the release signal and it is something I do often forget, particularly when I tell him to go to his bed when the door bell rings and he doesn't stay there...
Its so helpful to get another perspective on these things, sometimes we don't see the obvious! Thank you!!

[ips]

Well done with the goat (I had to read "goat kid" a few times as at first I thought it was some derogatory term for a little tearaway 😁)  as for picking up on things, yes. I am not that experienced but I have found without a doubt she senses when I trust her and when I don't and when I don't she does exactly what I feared she would do 😞 conversely if I show I trust her by being confident when giving instruction she "usually" she also knows the second I take my eye off her 😁

[MIN]

Gemma's release command is "okay". that is the only word used to release her from a previous command ( be it sit. stay, down)
I am a bit of a coward if I think a situation is going to appear I get Gemma back to me and we sit it out . This not because she is sometimes "deaf" but because she has a objection to dogs sniffing her bum and tells them in no uncertain terms 

[bizzylizzy]

Bit of a Deja Vu this morning, but thought I'd give ips's suggestion a go, so managed to put about 5 yards between us and put  him in a sit without the lead. Used a handful of treats and he was straining his neck to see what he was missing but main thing was,  he stayed in the sit! Hope that I can eventually shorten the distance! He's most definately less agitated off lead.
Big success  - many thanks again Ian!! 👍

[ips]

Bit of a Deja Vu this morning, but thought I'd give ips's suggestion a go, so managed to put about 5 yards between us and put  him in a sit without the lead. Used a handful of treats and he was straining his neck to see what he was missing but main thing was,  he stayed in the sit! Hope that I can eventually shorten the distance! He's most definately less agitated off lead.
Big success  - many thanks again Ian!! 👍

That's brilliant 😁
Well done 👍

[Rhards]

Hi there everyone am new to the forum so hope you will have a bit of patience with my post.
Our 6 month old bitch Fern will often ignore the command to come to me when asked to. This is especially when in a high distraction area eg walking down a green Lane where there is plenty to sniff at
She was good when 4 to 5 months but as she gets older she is getting worse
Would appreciate any comments.

[Mari]

Hi there everyone am new to the forum so hope you will have a bit of patience with my post.
Our 6 month old bitch Fern will often ignore the command to come to me when asked to. This is especially when in a high distraction area eg walking down a green Lane where there is plenty to sniff at
She was good when 4 to 5 months but as she gets older she is getting worse
Would appreciate any comments.

It's common for dogs that age to start forgetting what they know, it will get worse before it gets better
Go back to the beginning and start training with less distraction. Make sure the success rate is high and rewards are high quality. Use yourself for rewards, run around and play and be silly. Coming to you should be the most fun thing in the world because you have tough competition!
If you are not sure the recall is going to work then don't use it. Only use recall when the dog is already on its way to you or when you are sure you can beat the distractions. You can in time expect recall to work with more distractions, but you have to work up to it or the command will loose it's meaning.
Do a few recalls every walk just to give rewards and play and let the dog go again. It's important that recall is not only used for when the fun is over. Clue is to make recall into a fun thing.
But yeah the coming months are a tricky age where they are old enough to want to explore more on their own. So sometimes you have to use a long line if the distractions are too much.