Zorro's dislike of entire males

[clairep4]

Zorro's coming up for 3yrs old and was neutered at 6 months. He's always been really good around other dogs, usually just ignoring them, saying a polite hello or occasionally (if it's a leggy working cocker or a whippet  ) having a game. He spends 99% of his time on walks either following scents or chasing a ball.

Recently he's started developing a real dislike for entire males. It started a few months ago with one dog in our park who Zorro really just cannot stand (this dog has never touched him at all but Zorro will go up and shout at him given the chance, so we have to avoid him). Then the other week one of my dogwalkers said that there's a dog called Leo who they walk, entire male, alsation/staffie/lab cross (AKA Heinz 57  ) and that Zorro really doesn't like him. Leo's actually quite overbearing for alot of dogs but takes notice of Zorro, but they're now walking them separately to avoid uneccessary conflicts.

The other evening an entire male was bounding around and came over to Zorro and he told it to bog off in no uncertain terms. Then this morning the same thing again with another entire male. So it looks like quite a pattern - with bitches he is fine and I've never seen him snap at a neutered male either.

He doesn't tend to approach other dogs himself so it's really only if they come to him.

I'm loathe to start keeping him on the lead as he has so much energy, and also it won't solve the problem as it's not him going up to entire males, it's them coming up to him.

Has anyone else come across this kind of thing before?

[wilfsaunty]

Are you sure that its the fact they're entire that's the problem.  Or the fact that they are bouncy and come charging/bouncing over to him.  A lot of dogs will react if a dog is too ott and perhaps makes them feel a bit uncomfortable.

[mcphee]

I have exactly the same with Rufus, since my friends choc lab (entire) tried to mount him. There are 2 or 3 entire dogs who Rufus does not like going near his rear end (other than for a quick sniff). They are a King Charles and 2 labs. He will usually pass other dogs by, too busy with sniffs or hunting. He likes bitches and will play with neutered males. Now I have to look out for these three dogs, and talk him through the encounter. I do not stop to chat. Although he never touches them, he warns them off in no uncertain manner. The lady at agility who is a PAT assessor says it is not aggression, but probably fear. He never gets into a fight  (unless attacked). He has been attacked before. Funnily enough, this all started when Rufus was just over 3. He is now 4.5 and was castrated at 17 months, not because he was a problem sexually, but because he was such a hunter, with selective recall, I was worried about him going off after a bitch. Normally he can always find me, but I felt it was too risky, and not fair on the other dog owners, as he was so fast! Hope you get it sorted out.

[cdpops]

Hello Claire
Please don't think I am insane, but have you had his anal glands checked. It is as if you are describing Charlie, he is always like this when they need to be emptied. He gradually will get worse and be grumpy with all dogs, but it starts with entire males   
BTW just collected "how to train a superdog" it's a great book the pictures are fantastic, and the bits I have read explin things well.

[Helen]

could well be the anal glands but if Zorro is instigating the problem without the entire dog doing anything I would say it's a bit of fear aggression.

I have to say (in our experience) 90 percent of any grumbles that Jarvis has (entire) are started by neutered males  The latest one was a Tibetan Terrier who tore over the park and launched himself at Jarvis...who was mooching by the river bank and hadn't even seen this dog approach and got a helluva fright so I know it wasn't any body language or rudeness from Jarv (although he can be very cheeky  )

I do think that some neutered dogs (again just from our observation & experience) can become quite fear aggressive after neutering and I suppose the smell of a testosterone filled male dog can make them a bit scared, reactive and confused    

[mcphee]

could well be the anal glands but if Zorro is instigating the problem without the entire dog doing anything I would say it's a bit of fear aggression.

I have to say (in our experience) 90 percent of any grumbles that Jarvis has (entire) are started by neutered males  The latest one was a Tibetan Terrier who tore over the park and launched himself at Jarvis...who was mooching by the river bank and hadn't even seen this dog approach and got a helluva fright so I know it wasn't any body language or rudeness from Jarv (although he can be very cheeky  )

I do think that some neutered dogs (again just from our observation & experience) can become quite fear aggressive after neutering and I suppose the smell of a testosterone filled male dog can make them a bit scared, reactive and confused    

Oh no, Jarvis don't say you and Rufus Dufus won't be able to garden together! I understand about sore anal glands (not usually a problem with Sir R), but why is it only a few dogs, and always the same ones? By the way, Rufus doesn't usually run over to these dogs, because he has to save his energy for relocating small feathered or furry animals.

[Helen]

could well be the anal glands but if Zorro is instigating the problem without the entire dog doing anything I would say it's a bit of fear aggression.

I have to say (in our experience) 90 percent of any grumbles that Jarvis has (entire) are started by neutered males  The latest one was a Tibetan Terrier who tore over the park and launched himself at Jarvis...who was mooching by the river bank and hadn't even seen this dog approach and got a helluva fright so I know it wasn't any body language or rudeness from Jarv (although he can be very cheeky  )

I do think that some neutered dogs (again just from our observation & experience) can become quite fear aggressive after neutering and I suppose the smell of a testosterone filled male dog can make them a bit scared, reactive and confused    

Oh no, Jarvis don't say you and Rufus Dufus won't be able to garden together! I understand about sore anal glands (not usually a problem with Sir R), but why is it only a few dogs, and always the same ones? By the way, Rufus doesn't usually run over to these dogs, because he has to save his energy for relocating small feathered or furry animals.

some neutered dogs do smell a bit *attractive* to some entire male dogs hence the unwanted attention - however humping can occur for lots of reasons, not always sexual, and not always dominant.  I've seen it happen to force a reaction and chase/play with 2 neutered dogs - and each of them took it in turns 

We have a Cavalier here who is neutered and he's the only neutered boy that gets *cough* harrassed by all number of male dogs, entire and neutered.  He must smell yummy 

It is really frustrating when this kind of thing happens and your dog is minding his own business and not bothering anyone or anything (apart from bunnies & birds!) - perhaps he and Jarv should meet to prove that not all entire dogs need to hump him (unless of course he does smell delectable to Jarv as well )

sorry Claire - we've diverted from your original post      Does Zorro have any entire males around him that he does get on with?

[JohnW]

Your gonna think I am on drugs or something to what I am gonna suggest, Have you thought about artificial Testicles, yeah I know some are rolling their eyes or thinking I am taking the proverbial, but I was watching a program on sky a while back about Americans and their dogs and seemingly when a dog has his testicals removed it can cause upset as they do spend alot of time investing in cleaning and preening themselves downthere and well I was quite surprised that dogs without their 2 little friends do stress sometimes so maybe its a reaction towards other intact dogs that has been the cause of this and when they were artificially put back they seemed much happier.  

[clairep4]

Funnily enough this evening there were two teenage dogs (a ridgeback entire male and a labrador bitch). The lab came tearing over very rudely so got short shrift from the Muppeteers (esp as she nearly ran over Bella who was enjoying a post-swim roll at the time  ). The lab went away then the ridgeback came over to see what was up and Zorro just kind of went "yeah, so?" and didn't bother with him. So I dunno really.

I don't think it's his anal glands but he's having a bath and grooming session this weekend so I'll do 'em when he's in the bath just in case (oh he's gonna love me  ).

He's next on my list for T Touch case studies actually so will see if that helps matters. Off topic but I'm working on the most lovely little whippety girl at the moment, she was rescued having never been taken on walks in her whole 6 years and is very anxious around lots of things (dogs, noises, men, strangers, very handshy etc etc). Every time I go round there now she just about lets me get in the door then sits in position ready for me to start 

[Helen]

Funnily enough this evening there were two teenage dogs (a ridgeback entire male and a labrador bitch). The lab came tearing over very rudely so got short shrift from the Muppeteers (esp as she nearly ran over Bella who was enjoying a post-swim roll at the time  ). The lab went away then the ridgeback came over to see what was up and Zorro just kind of went "yeah, so?" and didn't bother with him. So I dunno really.

I don't think it's his anal glands but he's having a bath and grooming session this weekend so I'll do 'em when he's in the bath just in case (oh he's gonna love me  ).

He's next on my list for T Touch case studies actually so will see if that helps matters. Off topic but I'm working on the most lovely little whippety girl at the moment, she was rescued having never been taken on walks in her whole 6 years and is very anxious around lots of things (dogs, noises, men, strangers, very handshy etc etc). Every time I go round there now she just about lets me get in the door then sits in position ready for me to start 

Maybe the one's he has objected to have been a bit rude body language wise and he just hasn't tolerated it 

Sounds like his interaction with the ridgy was really nice 

[mcphee]

could well be the anal glands but if Zorro is instigating the problem without the entire dog doing anything I would say it's a bit of fear aggression.

I have to say (in our experience) 90 percent of any grumbles that Jarvis has (entire) are started by neutered males  The latest one was a Tibetan Terrier who tore over the park and launched himself at Jarvis...who was mooching by the river bank and hadn't even seen this dog approach and got a helluva fright so I know it wasn't any body language or rudeness from Jarv (although he can be very cheeky  )

I do think that some neutered dogs (again just from our observation & experience) can become quite fear aggressive after neutering and I suppose the smell of a testosterone filled male dog can make them a bit scared, reactive and confused    

Oh no, Jarvis don't say you and Rufus Dufus won't be able to garden together! I understand about sore anal glands (not usually a problem with Sir R), but why is it only a few dogs, and always the same ones? By the way, Rufus doesn't usually run over to these dogs, because he has to save his energy for relocating small feathered or furry animals.

some neutered dogs do smell a bit *attractive* to some entire male dogs hence the unwanted attention - however humping can occur for lots of reasons, not always sexual, and not always dominant.  I've seen it happen to force a reaction and chase/play with 2 neutered dogs - and each of them took it in turns 

We have a Cavalier here who is neutered and he's the only neutered boy that gets *cough* harrassed by all number of male dogs, entire and neutered.  He must smell yummy 

It is really frustrating when this kind of thing happens and your dog is minding his own business and not bothering anyone or anything (apart from bunnies & birds!) - perhaps he and Jarv should meet to prove that not all entire dogs need to hump him (unless of course he does smell delectable to Jarv as well )

sorry Claire - we've diverted from your original post      Does Zorro have any entire males around him that he does get on with?

Ware ja liv jarv ma man? Ruf ere/ Wi cud go bunniin an skwillin an rattin bu kepe awa from ma butt man! A iz stil a boi reeli. A practis on ma cushon! Rufxx